9/11 Rant Topic

What went wrong? What should have happend? What could have been done to avoid this tragedy.

State your opinions.



PS: Shogun your welcome.

 

I thought you said there already was one? Was I lied to?

 

>:|

I may lock this.

 

I think you may be overestimating this topics chances Fenix I think it will be lucky to make 20 posts before someone goes of the rail. As far as whether or not this is a duplicate I really don't know. I know this topic has been disscussed in other threads but that's not the same thing.

Anyways as for the actual topic itself, I think anyone who believes 9/11 to be a grand goverment scheme is not portraying themselves with positive wisdom. Incompetence is a very common trait amongst large organizations whether public or private, especially when dealing with elected leaders. The U.S. goverment is one of the largest organizations in the world, combine that with a couple of key people that are incompetent and an unwillingness to share information and I don't think it is that much of a stretch to see why 9/11 wasn't avoided.

As far as the towers coming down themselves, it has been a pretty well known fact for over 500 years that if you make metal hot enough it becomes more maluable. Jet fuel burns very hot; most objects you would find in an office (paper, desks, carpet...) tend to burn when enough heat is applied. There was several hundred tons of building above the locations where the planes hit, add to that the damaged supports of the intial impact, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the remaining super heated supports won't be able to hold up the rest of the building. Now you have several hundred tons of building falling onto the next layer of supports which are going to snap like tooth picks, which causes even more building to fall on the next layer of supports; this proccess continues until you no longer have a building. Which is what happened.

 

Yes yes yes all that is great but I wasn't talking about who did it I was talking about what could have been done to prevent it. How could the government stopped it from happening. I mean it looks like they messed up and it resulted in people dieing. So what should the government done in the weeks prior to the attack. Did they see signs of it? If so did they have legitimate reasons for not reacting to them?

 

That was answered in the first half of the on topic part of my post. In essence I think there were warning signs but people didn't recognize them for what they were, and most of the warning signs were small pieces of a puzzle some governement agencies didn't want to share, so there was very few opportunities for someone to actually see the whole picture and make a guess about what would happen.

Could it have been prevented, yes. Was it very likely to be prevented without something similar happening before, no.

 

They DID almost prevent it. Does nobody remember that there were 19 hijackers? Number 20 was arrested for unrelated reasons a while before the attack. Watch the "inside 9/11" documentary on national geographic. Real government people are in that one.

The reason for guantanamo was that the US government wanted to be able to better interrogate suspects. A result of bad interrogations of terrorist suspects prior to 9/11. Combine that with what LK said, and this topic is killed already.

 

anyways, kerwyn changed his avi xd. -.- i liked the old one better

uh...............force fields ftw? 0.0

 

The passengers themselves did a lot to prevent one of the attacks. I forget most of the story, but there were two planes that targeted the World Trade Centre, one that targeted the Pentagon, and a fourth with another target, but went down in a field when the passengers overpowered the hijackers. I also seem to remember that the attack on the Pentagon and possibly the fourth one as well, maybe it was also targeting the Pentagon, were kept quiet, and I've even heard that most US citizens don't know it was targeted as well. Can anyone verify that?

As for the whole inside job thing, I think people have to remember that the government doesn't have to have planned or staged the event for it to have been an inside job. I remember reading something which supposedly provided 'evidence' that it was an inside job, but even if the evidence is legit, it doesn't prove the government was involved at all.

 

Itza there were 3 targets, the WTC, the Pentagon, and the White House (or maybe the capital building). The idea was to symbolicly represent attacking the U.S.'s economy, millitary and goverment. The plane that headed for D.C. was retaken by passenegers except for the cockpit were the final one or two terrorists on board crashed the plane into Pensylvania. I think they made a movie on the incident called Flight 94 but I don't really remember.

And I do agree it is possible for them to have had inside help, but that's not the same thing as a grand conspiracy orchestrated by Bush and the evil Republicans to force us into a war.

 

In my opinion many people will rather believe that their government is so competent that they can design such a grand scheme with such a precision instead of accepting how really screwed their leadership and security forces are.
Reminds me of the Dark Knight. As long as everything goes according to plan everyone is calm. Do one unexpected thing and everyone loses their minds.

Anyway it's clear that mistakes were made. Garbage bin for tax payers money called CIA certainly ****ed up bad. Again. Perhaps they had few people on certain posts throughout the government but who doesn't? Few cockups does not equal grand conspiracy.





Oh and my favourite point is:
9/11 was not a conspiracy - hundreds of peer reviewed scientific papers
9/11 was a conspiracy - none.

But of course if your government is capable of demolishing its biggest city by flying planes with their own citizens into buildings corrupting the peer reviewing process shouldnt be all that hard.

 

Its not hard to fathom the benefits to a government attacking its own enterprises. War is very profitable to certain interest groups, and you can't start and sustain a war without general public support. I just look at the way our system operates today and peer into the past and it's not hard to believe that things like self-inflicted terrorist attacks happen today.

The free enterprise system is mostly dead, capitalism in america has evolved into "corporatism". Ever since the Dodge vs. Ford Motor Company case in 1919 it is LAW that companies owed a duty to the shareholders to operate their business for profitable purposes (at the expense of anything; environment, workers, etc) as opposed to charitable purposes. The government too must operate to maximize profits for its shareholders. If you really think about it, there is no power to the people, or the visible government, the president and congress are just things for people to place blame when everything appears to go wrong. Such an evil system, and it's no wonder to me that a corporation(s) would order the destruction of the world trade centers to jump start profitable gain from the phoney war on terror; it's all about the money baby. Some believe that the 9/11 attacks and the war is all a part of this scheme leading to global control of all nations and their interests. The former seems to make more sense but I could believe the latter especially on how much reading I have done on albert pike, the rothschilds' banking empire, and the illuminati, but I won't even get into that yet.

"Oh and my favourite point is:
9/11 was not a conspiracy - hundreds of peer reviewed scientific papers
9/11 was a conspiracy - none."

Higgs Boson, did you forget or ignore that huge post I made from our last debate on this subject? There are many things supporting the 9/11 conspiracy. The Bush family relation to the Bin Laden Family, the resignation of FBI director John P. O'neill when his investigation of Osama Bin Laden was blocked, are just some of the strongest evidence of a scandal. And I don't believe the government is competent at all thank you very much, if they were they wouldn't have been overrun by corporations. However, the corporate machine has done a VERY good job at selling the phoney war to the people.

 

Do you have any actual evidence of what happened or is it all 'Oh look at this, this could possibly fit into my conspiracy scenario therefore there must be something more to it!'. Book of Revelation 'Global Government' and 'evil' belongs to a fundie christian board. Not here, please. Global leadership of some kind is to be expected in highly globalized society by the way.

So again, do you have any actual evidence; a step by step proof based on facts that the government of the US at the time staged this entire thing in attempt to start a war which will somehow make a profit for them? If yes why the hell do you waste your time here and dont get it peer reviewed? Youll be famous.

 

Before we keep debating, why don't you try sticking to the debate instead of attempting to biasely label my arguments as pure Christian fundamentalism when you know little to nothing of my own background and the source of my information. Thanks. A peer review study means nothing when the reviewers already support the general consensus. Would you like me to remind you of the Philip Zelikow connection again with this 'peer reviewed' idea you have? There is no such things as actual proof of ANYTHING, there is only evidence that supports itself, because arbitrarily in this case the government can always lie about claims against them so you will never know what is truth and what is false. So what proof is there of these so called peer reviewed scientific papers that there isn't a conspiracy? Please because I would like to know. You only have evidence in your hands to support the idea but you have no proof. To answer your question, yes I have evidenc, and I have already given you some of that in another thread (if you like I can repost all of that information and even more), but I have seen little from you. All you have done is mention peer reviewed scientific papers but you haven't mentioned what is said. I can argue that for you it is all 'Oh look at this, this makes sense to me therefore it must be true!'. And please, don't you think that presenting claims with strong evidence that goes against the general consensus would make me infamous rather then famous as it has already done to many (I.E. Truther name calling)?

If you believe that absolutely there is no conspiracy then you have overlooked the system.

 

well it depends on what kind of approach you would like to take. Forexample you could cut the support to Israel, but would that go against your policy? I dont know, but what i do know, is that the american irrational economic support to Isreal had a lot to do with it. Listen to the muslims. Listen to the people who speak. If you ignorre a problem or something, then it wil not dissapear, rather it will boil, gain strength, if the people are determined, and over some time the people have gathered enough power and support to strike back.

A 2nd approach. There is this clip, i have tried to google it before, didnt succeed but i have seen it in TV, they say "oh so Osama Bin Laden decleared war on us! Yeah you and what army?" Maybe, just maybe, take a decleration of war more serious.

a 3rd approach. A lot of money went to Isreal, and not so much money went to the poor, and only a small amount of the not so much money which went to the poor went to Afgahnistan. The food that went to Afgahnistan to prevent starvation was proberbly exchanged into money (approx. 43 million dollars) and with this money the Taliban gained a lot of momentum. And this was about 5 moths before 911.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=3556

And if you look into the numbers...
Then you get sick when you see how much money USA has supported Israel with. lol if i recal corrrectly 3 american trillions since 1948 :s Imagine what 3 american trillions could have achieved if they were spread throughtout the world instead of a concentrated onesided support to Isreal.
Today i am in a good mood and will provide from me to you an example: the 3 american trillions could have preventet terror.

ok time for some goofiness:
a 4th approach, build buildings stronger. But hey this is a joke ok. Lol building buildings stronger doesnt solve the problem.

ok back to the seriousnesity:
a 5th approach, stop telling lies to the vesterlings people through mainstream media. Tell us what is going on. Dont keep something secret. It may hurt your national pride to tell what is going on, but how can we prepare for something if no one know what is going on? Dont be afraid to tell us, the vesterlings how evil, we, the vesterlings, are against the developping lings.

Its like ok we are evil but lets have as few people to be aware of this as possible.

Ill tell you this, thats bull****. Dont be afraid to tell how evil we are, because when something is hidden away, it will come back and the rendezvous will contain epic proportions of unpreparedness. Remember, if something is hurting, then it is to be unprepared.

911 was exactly that, an epic proportion of unpreparedness.

 

um....yea imo, seriousl, honestly without any joke at all (omg im making it sound like a joke -.-), i think we should just

BOMB THE SHIZZ OUTTA THEM!

 

@ShoGun: Please present your case already. Lay out the evidence that is supposed to convince us. Remember you are the one making claims here.

 

"9/11 was not a conspiracy - hundreds of peer reviewed scientific papers" that's a claim you stated in which I asked, "So what proof is there of these so called peer reviewed scientific papers that there isn't a conspiracy?" I want to know what answers you have for me first.

 

You nuke both Israel and Pakistan.... and voila! Problem solved And even maybe no more Islam terrorists as a bonus so what do you say?

 

I say Israel and Pakistan have nukes as well, and while we could nuke either one and disable their own nuclear capabilites before they knew what hit them. I would also like to remind you that Israel stands as one of the few if not only democracies in that region. Along with the fact that its been a supporter of the US for a long time now I don't see how blowing it up would help.... Pakistan...... Well Pakistan is helping us with the terrorists.