Brainteaser/Puzzle Corner (Part 5)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by JBL, Sep 25, 2007.

Brainteaser/Puzzle Corner (Part 5)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by JBL, Sep 25, 2007.

  1. JBL

    JBL New Member

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    Yes.. it's a bit late.. but.. well.. I finally closed it.

    oh and.. protoss commander, if you take a look in the part 4, your 10th riddle about the 3 women.. I answered it about 10-15 replies before josh... ... ...

    So.. anyway.. continue to post your riddles here.
     
  2. -LT-

    -LT- New Member

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    Finally a new thread.
     
  3. BnechbReaker

    BnechbReaker New Member

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    first riddle of the new section :)

    for 500 minerals

    we all know that every zerg egg produces 2 zerglings, one day 2 very special zerglings were born from the same egg, Tommy and Lucas. ;) they both understand english but can only speak "yes" and "no" in addition, they are biologically identical so there's no way to tell them apart by physical examination.

    Tommy always tell the truth and Lucas always lies. in addition Tommy is totally accurate in all its beliefs - everything it believes to be true is true and everything it believes to be false is false. Lucas, on the other hand, is totally inaccurate in its beliefs - everything it believes to be true is in fact false and everything it believes to be false is in fact true.

    this means that each zergling will give the same answer to the same yes/no question, what ever that question is. for example, suppose you ask them whether zerglings can kill battlecruisers. Tommy knows that they can't and will truthfully answer no. Lucas, however, believes that zerglings can kill battlecruisers but it will lie and say that they can't, so it will also answer no.

    having been captured by the terrans, the commanders what to know which zergling is Tommy so that they can make use of its knowledge. one scientist, however, argues that it would not be possible because whatever question you ask them, they will give the same answer.

    the scientist is in fact incorrect, so the riddle is:

    1) how many questions are necessary to identify Tommy? what are the questions?
    2) what is wrong with the scientist's argument?
     
  4. kuvasz

    kuvasz Corrections Officer

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    You ask both the Zerglings: Are you Lucas? Tommy would answer no and Lucas would answer yes (because he gets it wrong plus lies)

    The scientist doesn't consider the fact the their names are in fact different so for the same question they'd answer differently (because of Lucas' double negation)
     
  5. Quanta

    Quanta New Member

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    Edit: f**k I took to long to explain everything lol

    Put an image of William Shattner in your mind

    KUUUVAAAAAASSSSSSZ!!!!!!!

    I hate to say it but the logic of your riddle is flawed.  I think I know the answer you are looking for.

    1.  Irrelevent because both Tommy and Lucus will always give the same answer
    2.  It doesn't matter which is Tommy since if you ask either for about information they will always give you the truthful answer.

    The problem is that they won't both answer every question the same way.

    For example if you ask Tommy is he Lucus, he will say no.  He knows he isn't Lucus and he will tell yo uthe truth.

    Lucus believes he isn't Lucus so he will lie and answer yes.  This is because for Tommy, it is true that he isn't Lucus.  However, for Lucus it is true that he is Lucus.  So any question that has a truth value dependant on which zergling you ask will be answered differently.

    So the correct answer is 1.  Ask a ling if he is Lucus.  If he says yes it is Lucus if it says no it is Tommy and the other is Lucus.

    The answer to 2 is that it is possible to figure out which is which for the reason I explained above.  
     
  6. BnechbReaker

    BnechbReaker New Member

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    since you both answered independently, you both get minerals

    however both of you have not quite pointed out correctly exactly what made the scientist's argument fall apart, anyway i'll award 400 minerals to each of you
     
  7. Quanta

    Quanta New Member

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    2. Ok I'll give it a better go.

    Assuming you only ask yes or no questions, each zergling will determine the truth value of the statement associated with each question. For example can a zergling kill a battleship. associated statement would be a zergling can kill a battle ship. For any statement that each zergling assigns oposite truth values to they will give you the same answer. However, any statement that they do not assign opposite truth values to they will give different responses. Such statements come in two catagories. Statements that they assign the same truth value to, as in is your name Lucus. Tommy assigns the statement you are Lucus, a truth value of false, as will Lucus since he is always wrong. The other catagory of statements are statements whose truth value is unknown to Tommy. Tommy knows he doesn't know everythig, while Lucus believes he does. To if you ask a question that Tommy doesn't know the answer to, he cannot answer. Lucus on the other hand believes he does know everything and will state what he believes is the false answer. Now depending on how you interpet this riddle that could mean one of two things. A, this is a situation that by pure chance he could give you the wrong answer, or Lucus possesses some "spooky" ability and will still always give you the correct answer, though he thinks he is giving you the wrong answer.

    Note: I am about 95% sure spooky is actually the technical term a physicist would use to describe such an ability.
     
  8. Quanta

    Quanta New Member

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    Sorry for the double post:

    New riddle

    Name Petals around the rose

    Since this riddle is very easy to look up on the tubes I will only offer a powerup as a reward.

    The riddle is more a brainteaser than a riddle and it either requires a me to roll physical dice for you or provide you with a link to a site that will roll the dice virtually. I will do the latter.

    Once you have the solution send me a PM. Do not post the answer in the thread I will be offering a power up to the first 5 people to answer the riddle.

    Below is a link to a site that will give you the riddle, and roll dice for you as well as calculate solutions. Once you figure out how to solve it send me a PM explaining how. Also, the site has really annoying music so I recommend you disable audio from webpages while you are there. Or at least turn off your speakers.

    Two last things, this is a very hard puzzle and no cheating.

    http://www.borrett.id.au/computing/petals-j.htm
     
  9. Protosscommander

    Protosscommander New Member

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  10. Wlck742

    Wlck742 New Member

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    From:
    In your head
    part 5 already, wow.
     
  11. Protosscommander

    Protosscommander New Member

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    Oh yes firne the5th riddle thread yehaa ok, lets continue :)
     
  12. darkone

    darkone Moderator

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    yes lets friend
     
  13. Hadean

    Hadean New Member

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    50 minerals and :powerup: for this quote:

    "C'mon you apes! You wanna live forever?!"
     
  14. BnechbReaker

    BnechbReaker New Member

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    /\ Johnny Rico from starship troopers, what an awesome movie!

    _________________________________________________

    @ Quanta:
    the simple answer is that when you ask each zergling "are you Lucas?". the "you" in each question refers to a different zergling, so it's in fact 2 different questions.

    this is the cause of a common bug in computer programs where reference to values are used instead of the absolute values themselves.
     
  15. Hadean

    Hadean New Member

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    Correct, though I would have also accepted Lt. Rascjak as he says it prior to Rico. Enjoy the :powerup: and 50 minerals.
     
  16. josh

    josh New Member

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    here is my still unanswered quote from the last section and i'll add new ones. i still don't have extra minerals for prizes but luckily i get funding from selling tomatoes and posting.

    for 100 minerals:

    "i don't have a problem with the world! it's the world that has a problem with me!"

    for 100 minerals:

    "5 months since saigon, and my best friend's a V.C. this will not look good on my resume!"

    for 100 minerals:

    "you're making me angry. you won't like me when i'm angry."

    same rules as the riddles, state the character and the movie.
     
  17. -LT-

    -LT- New Member

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    The ''You're making me angry. You won't like me when I'm angry.'' quotes are from the movie Hulk. Bruce says that. But I think it's ''you wouldn't like me when I'm angry''. Maybe it's not from the hulk?
     
  18. josh

    josh New Member

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    yes it i. lol. you got it. ;D
     
  19. -LT-

    -LT- New Member

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    YAY! Thanks for the minerals. :good:
     
  20. BnechbReaker

    BnechbReaker New Member

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    "5 months since saigon, and my best friend's a V.C. this will not look good on my resume!"
    Robin Williams in Good Morning, Vietnam