'Cliffs' Are they still safe?

When I saw the demo of StarcraftII it was like hell non-balanced. The main thing i was angry about is that cliffs are no longer safe enough. The reason that Lost-Temple succeded was beacause it had mostly good defence and nice place for mining minerals by the front. But after I looked at the demo, I was like WTF. Because there are hardly any defence left for terran now. I mean siege tanks are like rubbish now since they get pwned by those Immortals. Plus even cliffs can't save them from anything. Next, if the siege tank continues like this then there wont be any use for them. Since Lost-Temple only has 1 route for ground units you would only have to place like12+ siege tanks by the front. BUT now on StarcraftII there are units that can climb cliffs and attack all the SCV's from the side.
Besides that there are more thing sto worry about. EVEN if you have near-perfect-defence still will get pwned by phase prism. I mean the prisms are like hell unfair. Since you can tele units to the prism, the from line defence will be USELESS.

I think that blizzard should do something about the cliffs and a way to make cliffs like 'cliffs'

 

you could just shoot down phase prisms, it not like they're invincible....

and siege tanks can still hit colossi, missile turrets hit them, and they are probably late game units. It also takes time to tele units in and if the prism dies those units die

 

I still don't understand what you mean by cliffs.

The siege tanks are effective for practically any other unit. You've only seen a glimpse of what is to be seen. I'm sure the terrans are going to be badass once information for them is released.

Why would you 12+ siege tanks be an effective defense in the fron in Lost Temple. Lost temple has one entrance but so many drop areas so I don't understand what you mean about getting screwed now cause 12 siege tanks on the front is an ineffective defense thatll prolly get owned by a carrier (or tempest in SC2). Plus only one unit can go up cliffs and that would be the colossus and from what I seen, they can go on smaller steps and not the gigantic ones. Plus the colossus is prone to anti air and anti ground (siege tanks? lol), so unless all you have are SCVs around your base, you won't be screwed if you have the right defenses.

I really think prisms are not that unfair at all. First it might not even have as much hp/shield as you think since it is a transport. Really if you leave phase prisms in front of your base, then you really need to work on not turtling and start scouting and expanding and be active when playing.

EDIT: eclipse please don't spam

 

whoa sorry about that it kept giving me a error msg and said it didnt send so i kept trying it over and over...
=/

 

all it means is you have to change your strategy. so far there are 2 units that can cross cliffs, and they are in different races.

 

Try playing maps other than lost temple that had multiple choke points or really large choke points that were so big they could hardly be choke points. Teaches you to have a much better defense and to focus on having your offense be your defense.

 

Yeah, the best players I play with don't even bother trying to control chokes (with buildings, at least) unless they're really good chokes- they just use good building placement, build-capacity, and scouting: any enemies that make it to their base undetected end up having a tough time hurting anything but HP-heavy structures, hardly even able to engage the defenses (while the defenses tear away at them), and soon find an army being built right in front of them. Such bases can hold, if not repel large forces, even if the player doesn't bring their main army into it.

 

starcraft2.com. go on the colossus page, watch the full animation of the second one. there is a first one walking on tiles, watch the one on grass. it walks up 2 levels of cliffs.

 

It only walks up one level cliff at a time. So, if the cliff is 2 levels high to begin with, the colossus can't climb up it.

 

where are there cliffs 2 levels high...

 

not many in SC1, but the colossus isnt in SC1!

 

Um in that video. The cliff is like this:
.......______
____|_____|
|_________|

ignore the dots

 

Just because we've seen one protoss unit that can walk over single cliffs does not mean Terran defensive strategy will fall apart. First and foremost the colossus is not a siege weapon, it is utilized against masses of small enemies. Siege tanks will own them whether they have cliffs or not.

As for the phase prisms, you'll just have to shoot them down before they get to you. If you think about it, what is the difference between a phase prism and a shuttle? You can't kill all of the units inside by destroying it, but that is about it. If you let a phase prism get behind your defenses then you essentially just let a new and shiny shuttle in. If you let either a shuttle or a phase prism in your defenses then you deserve to get dropped on.

 

Phase prism has the same regular unit transporting function of a shuttle on top of it's pyloning ability.
Cliffs are just as safe as they were in starcraft which is to say they really aren't if you are playing someone half decent. The Colossus will probably be a high tier unit at which point people could just as easily have done shuttle drops on you in StarCraft.
If anything, it will make people develop new strategies which is part of the fun that is StarCraft.

 

I agree with paragon on this matter. Cliffs should still be safe from a majority of the StarCraft 2 units, We have only seen two units (thus far) that are able to "jump" ground. Not enough to truly ruin the balance of the game in my opinion. Besides, Terrans can harass Protoss players with Reapers.

 

Well, even in SC1 cliffs could be crossed through the air, so its just another way to get through the defences. Even so, the Colossus is able to be attacked by anti-air, so you can keep one out the same way you keep air out, and reapers seem preety frail too, so im sure just good unit placement will be just fine

I personally dislike LT compared to other maps anyway, its still good, but i'd still play other maps over LT

 

Yeah I honestly think lost temple is not very balanced and I have a general dislike for maps with one ramp going up to the base because this makes most people just make this huge defensive place there.

 

yea but you can always drop on their base and, in addition, the person with a huge defensive place by the ramp is either not gonna expand very much or a turtler (haha same thing i guess). There's always a way to get through those defensive strongholds anyways.

I still think it is a very balanced map but that's my opinion of course.

 

Please...the game isn't even finished yet...you don't even know what Terran completely has...
Don't assume.

 

Yea, it leads to either massing photon cannons or terran barricades.