complex muta, ling problem.. trend. PvZ

OK, I'm a silver level protoss (should be ranked gold or plat IMO, but don't play frequently enough to place there since I originally was ranked into silver), and I play against a friend who is a diamond level zerg player a couple times a week. I've beaten him a few times lately (love it when I do, too). His strats tend to be either ling -> roach, hydra, -or- ling, -> muta, corruptor.

I have much more success against the roach, hydra combo than the ling/muta combo. He uses the muta harass strat very well on my probe lines..

usually those games end up starting with me going zealot, sentry, stalker, then when i see that he's going muta, i get a few phoenix up if i can as the obvious counter next to stalkers. i also usually have blink stalkers and charge on my zealots by this time. he macros very heavily, so he can usually get a huge swarm of muta up very quickly, so its imperative that i get the anti air up asap. once he does his first round of muta harass, i'm usually thinking "oh ****" and try to really pump out the stalkers and phoenix.. then, before you know it, he'll be putting up the corrupters to counter my phoenix and make them less effective.. so naturally, since he's all air at this point (usually he has 3 bases, i have 2) i'm pumping out the stalkers like crazy to counter.. then, of course, he starts with the speedlings again that i was defending against in the beginning.. this is usually where i end up having to throw the GG because the lings just crap on my stalkers... i usually try to get some zealots up, but am not very successful. and obviously, theres no point to colossus due to the corrupters and mass muta...

besides getting more zealots up to counter the speedlings that seem to be inevitable, which does me no good against the mutas or corrupters, what do I do? does it just come down to making sure that i have a huge economy and 10 warpgates so i can get the units out quickly enough to keep up? do i get high templar (which im not good at using) since i already have the twilight council? do I go DT's to help out since he might not immediately notice the speedlings getting raped? the only problem with the templar route is that he can scout my bases so quickly with those mutas, he'd see it coming.. or snipe it out..

minerals are usually not the problem unless he got lucky and sniped a probe line..

then, of course, if i survive to late game, he's got the ultras out, and then its definitely GG..


i love this game, and when i finally beat him, it's going to be a glorious day.. he's just a lot better than the average silver level zerg who craps out after you counter the first wave of mutas..

 

I'm thinking since you already make sentries for guardian shield and some AA, make some more against lings and spam force fields until you have enough zealots. And be sure to upgrade your weapons to counter carapace upgrades as they're crucial in ling-zealot battles.

 

ok - good advice with the FF from sentries.. only thing is even with the sentries and stalkers, when he has 20 mutas, he's pretty effective at dividing my army. and the problem is that even if im able to stop him, he has such a strong economy, he has another crap load of mutas out again in short order.. +lings.

he usually has a lot of larvae banked and can just get a lot of stuff out quickly. he uses his queens very effectively, etc..

 

uh.
- Use phoenixes to harass.
- you tihnk 10 warpgates = alot? 16+ ftw.
- get colossi anyways. just try it. and templars. go storm flyers trying to snipe ur colossi.
- a few void rays? i usually get them to harass + distract if nothing else.

dont let him choose what u build and try to be efficient at countering his air while not going all out into countering it

 

you cant do 16 on 2 baes you can pull out about 7 or 8 warpgates with nothing else going cept probes and expand at sometime.

you could do something crazy again him and simply try to kill him first. you can use warp cheese to buy you time ( warp in like 3 pylons in his base and make some zealots there) always kill his gas guys as mutas cost gas and lost of it. use phoenixes to proactively engage mutas, as they are faster than corrupters.

 

My first thought when I read this was force the issue earlier. Zerg for obvious reasons can expand a lot quicker than the other races. From my limited experience I have won more early, early-mid, mid games versus zerg than late games. If I can keep his first expo down and win the first skirmish its game over regardless of how it long it goes on after. I feel like zerg initially is the weakest but as the game progresses it grows exponentially. Especially in your case if you guys get to 3-4 bases, I guarantee you he had his expos up before you and had them saturated. As protoss you have a large advantage, but a small window in tier 1 warpgate units. Zealot > ling, stalker > roach (range) sentry makes stalker > roach/queen. Use this to your advantage, and maybe open with a 4 warpgate push. And try to knock him off balance.

If he is going mutas he will have to open with lings and probably skip on the roach warren. So all you have to contend with could be lings, which zealots can easily take on with a few stalker support. I understand he is a diamond player though which could be factoring into the extra difficulty.

 

Umm... why hasn't anyone suggested Archons? Huge HP, useful against the muta (High Temps into Archon) and one or two-shot large groups of Zerglings. Perfect alternative.

You also need to be sure that you have more than a 1:3 base ratio to his macro. So if he has 3 bases you need to have 2. If he has you at 3 bases to your 1 base, you're in trouble.

 

You can try high templar and archons. Those are good against both zerglings and mutalisks.

 

Are Archons really that good? Every time I tried going that old strat from SC:BW (Zlots and Archons) It never seems to do very well. Atleast not like it did back in the day.

 

Not saying you go all Archons. Just some. A well-mixed army is a powerful army.

 

do stalkers really counter roaches?? well obiously when the roaches dont have speed upgrade i can see why heheheheheh

but when they do have speed....... then the stalkers cant kite eh? but i think it also depends on ramps and chokes so maybe..... but thats what zerg is all about, surrounding your opponent and not letting him escape xD

 

Believe it or not, mutalisks arnt used to kill workers. There used for map control. Place 4 cannons around your line, and your fine untill he gets that critticle mass where he can steamroll a whole base and fly out.(which he should NEVER reach)
your best bet is some phenox and stalkers. Don't invest in blink so early, as it isn't worth it. Zealot-sentry will take care of zerglings with halfassed forcefields, not to mention sentrys counter mutas wonderfully.

 

I use mutas to harrass mineral lines.. >_>