Cruiser or Carrier no match against marrines or hydralisks?

a single battle cruisers can be taken out by dozen of hydralisk etc in a few seconds in game mode. but in reality theres no way these hydralisk can take out the cruiser. right? they wont dare spit on a battle cruiser. :-X 15 plus marines can also destroy a carrier fleet or a BC easily in the game. in reality the carrier is so massive (check out the movie) that even mutualisk can even get inside the fleet. now how in the world bullets fired from 15 marines can blow up a carrier fleet (with shields). while the interceptor is having a headache killing the marines (in game mode). in reality 15 marines or even 25 is no match for a protoss carrier. the carrier is so big and up above the skies, how can the marines fire with ease dealing normal damage. wow!

i think these huge flying units should be way more powerful than ground units. battle cruisers should not be easily be killed by terran marrines and hydralisk unless it is match up against 6 or more goliath, dragons etc. but a dozen of basic units like marines, hydralisks should not win against a single cruiser and single carrier unless there are 15 or more maybe. and the BC and carrier will have their life bar in red after battling a dozen of these ground units.

i hope they will make the BC or carrier (guess that would be the mothership now) almost invulnerable against basic units like marines and hydralisk unless if they are truly outnumbered. so that it will be more realistic.by the way a single nuke should destroy pylons upon impact unlike in sc1. ;D


*added* dont mind the realism thing, ok? just talk about the battle cruiser hyradlisks carrier marrines.

 

ok. i have no problem with other parts of the game with regards to reality. the structures are fine with me. ofcourse its impossible to build a big command center etc. in a game.

what i mean is that these huge badass ships maximize their reputation by not being easily killed by a dozen of marines or hydralisk. i hope in the game, they make all the huge ships very tough against small firing units like hydralisk and marines. i was thinking making them a lot stronger against these units, the BC and carriers are big bully(s) and should not be taken so lightly by hydralisk and marines. except like i said if they are truly outnumbered (15 or more marines or hydralisk) . thats all.

 

And offcourse they need a whole crue and stuff, so new requirements:

1.000.000.000 minerals
750.000.000 vespene gas
180 supplies.




:

 

Yeah it would be nice to see them a bit stronger, but then it would be harder to mass build them because they would cost and arm and a leg.

 

Blizzard is shooting for tactics flexibility with the Carrier / Battleship.
How much resource is required to build a ship, indicates a level of devoted effort.

If it is too high, nobody will ever want to commit building a ship.
It's already a higher level of commitment than simpler units.

In return for your commitment, you get a fairly maneuverable and powerful unit ...
in short, it plays better with lower cost, smaller size, and balanced power.

Take the "Mothership". If that were any bigger, it would be hard to control and keep away from enemy weapons. If it had any more offensive force, it would cause "splintering" to all enemy tactics, overwhelming offense that greatly overvalues the amount spent on the ship.

---

Let's say a Battleship had the firepower of 10, and cost 10 times as much.
That sounds balanced, but you now have to commit 10 times more effort to get a Battleship, and it becomes a game-breaking event. Either your Battleship decimates the enemy's forces (the steamroller effect - nothing can get close to the force, unless it is comparably powerful, so a lot of smaller assets get crushed up) or your enemy takes it out and now has such a heavy financial advantage, the game is OVER.

Blizzard would have to decide which of those is more appropriate; Battleship crushes everything in its way, or defense wins more often, leaving the buyer broken.
If you go with number 1, everyone goes for a battleship and people without one are S.O,L.
If you go with solution 2, no one is stupid enough to waste time on a Battleship.

How did Blizzard handle it in Starcraft 1?
Costs were lowered, the unit was shrunk, and the impact reduced.
You can get a lot of the same effects of "Super Battleship" from building 10 Battleships, and now they can be split up, hazed by smaller forces (a couple battleships destroyed by a lesser force, which couldn't happen with single-strong-unit) put in formation and much more.

And in Starcraft 2?

The biggest battleship-like vehicle ever to grace the game, the powerful Mothership.
It's still not a screen filler. Its firepower is good, but limited.

And did you watch it flatten that squad of marines in stride?


In short, Blizzard turned it up about 2 notches and said "There. That big enough for ya?"

 

Also, if you wanna argue realism, the Terrans, though human, are the most unrealistic race in the whole game.

I've never seen an entire forward base pop up five minutes or less.

I've never seen a ship that can turn invisible built in under a minute.

Heck, the Protoss make the MOST sense.....All their stuff is premade back on Auir and is warped in.


Oh well. It's just a game.

 

Frostshock, you really put up some good posts, you are quite the good writer. You exercise good logic, and you seem to be one of the few here to truly understand multiplayer intricacies of SC. You save me a lot of trouble by saying everything I have on my mind but putting it in better words. I appreciate all posts reflecting thoughts put into impact on gameplay. Great many posts are wild ideas pulled out of the void, if you know what I mean.
I've enjoyed quite many good reads lately, keep up the good work.

And to the original poster, people are already making such a fuss over a little mothership and you want bigger? Any time you take on logic or realism to argue game design, you are just going against all things good and holy in this world.

 

ok im sorry. hhhmmm just give the cruiser at least a few more additional HP in starcraft 2

 

hahaha,its aiur(i use to spell it auir to)well i think what the OP means is to have marines,hydralisk or anything smaller then a hydralisk only do like barely any damage to the cruiser/carrier,it would make sense.one problem tho,it make Terrans and Protoss overpowered,zerg dont have a uber ship to counter it,and it would ruin unit diversity everyone would just race to have a cruiser or carrier,no one will wanna be zerg,since their best way to fight those was hydra/ mass scourge suicides..

 

thats right, a little tougher battle cruisers! 10 hydralisk should not threaten a single battlecruiser in game, just like in reality. if you notice in Starcraft 1 battlecruiser are almost no part in professional games, because a dozen of hydralisk can counter them easily. :no:

about the zerg? mass production can counter these ships. a swarm of hydralisk will seal the deal. zerg has devourer scourge etc.

 

Think about Chess. In real life a single footman(pawn) should never be able to defeat a tower(rook), and yet, in the game, it happens all the time. If Chess were implemented on a realistic scale, you'd have a board with thousands of pawns, and need hundreds to defeat a rook.

This is in essence exactly what you want to happen: a player would need hundreds of Marines to defeat one Battlecruiser, so 100 supply would be devoted to this one task. On the other end, a Battlecruiser would then have to take up 100 supply for it to be balanced against Marines. This means, with a supply limit of 200, a player can own at most 2 Battlecruisers at once.

There are games where this happens: Supreme Commander has units to scale with one another, by cost and size, but it is built that way. And even so, it suffers in that you can't micro a large unit at the same zoom level as you micro smaller units.

You can't think of StarCraft units representing actual ships and men, because the game would go away. You have to think of them as abstractions, chess pieces, that can interact with each other on a reasonable scale.

 

lets not make things complicated ok? thanks ;D

all im asking at least 15 (or if you want 12 or more hydralisk is the ideal number to destroy a single battle cruiser. thats it! not less than 10 etc. is that hard? will it change the gameplay dramatically, maybe in starcraft 1. but im talking about starcraft 2, BC should either have have improve HP or armor. ;D

stop with the realistic thing anymore, ok? :upset:

i think the pawn in a chess game represents a hundred soldier. while in starcraft you easily see a single marine is a single unit, 10 marines is 10 soldires or units. ;D

oh yeah as seen in the demo, the mothership pwns all teran marines! now thats why im talkin about (tnx blizzard). i hope cruiser does the same against 10 or less hydralisks or marines, well ofcourse not as powerful as the mothership.

sorry im a big BC fan, and i want it to be more BADAZZ in SC2.

ble!

 

ofCOURSE NOT!

i think the mothership can handle 20-30 marrines.
Now for the BC let it handle at least 12 marines or 10 hydralisks in SC2 (if more than that then goodbye cruiser. boom!! thats all!

what wrong with you guys. read my post before this. ;D

 

Zeratul11, I can understand your wishes for capital ships to be stronger, especially in comparison to more basic units. This certainly is not the first time over all the years of SC that this has been brought up.

But let me ask you this, are you willing to pay the price for this increase in power for the battlecruiser? Because that's what everything comes down to. BC is already the most expensive unit in the game, do you really want to pay more than 400 mineral and 300 gas for each BC?

BCs are the ONLY UNITS in the entire game that can survive a direct nuclear strike. Their yamato gun boasts the longest firing range in the game. BCs have the most HP out of all units. With defensive matrix that's 750 whopping HP that you have to eat through, that's a freaking building in the sky. But in the end, they are still 6-supply units. They won't be have more than 6 marines or hydras' worth of usefulness. You might think you rather have a more powerful unit, but having a 1600 mineral 1200 gas 24-supply unit isn't what you really want. It would be even less accessable and used even less than compared to now.

BCs are still very powerful units, but you have to get massing mentality out of your head, which isn't how the game was meant to be played in the first place anyway. Meaning, you never have to beat a unit with just one other unit, it's about their roles in the game as a whole.

With a few BCs and other mix of units, you can keep them up for a long long time. 500~750 HP is a huge buffer for you to pull back any damaged BCs to repair and make new. Hydras can't be repaired, and marines die in seconds, if not one-shotted, even with medics. You have to realize the real prowess of BCs do not lie in their ability to obliterate everything else but how much punishment they can endure, this is especially important in late game.

You might say what I said does not apply to real games. But being mainly a Zerg player myself, we reluctantly and painfully have to tech to ultralisks late game for that exact reason, tenacity. Sometimes many little units just won't do without some big guys to take the hits.

Think everything in terms of supplies, even though as you go up it doesn't scale linearly. Four zerglings will beat one zealot, but in many situations lings die too quickly to be very useful. Swarms of small units will always out damage the one big unit in equal supply for the most part. But there are always situations that they just won't cut it and you have to go one step up.

 

okie. thanks! D*mn you battle cruiser toys! marrines and hydralisks! prepare for war, lets bring the arrogant battle cruisers down. ;D

 

^I apologize if I made you feel smothered by my effort to bring you down to your knees, that's was not my intent.

I just wanted to try helping you see everything in perspective, in hope of maybe you might realize everything's not that bad.  It's not that I just "have to be right."

But of course you are entitled to your own opinions and wishes.  If you still don't see it my way cuz of one reason or another, that's more than OK.  I hope you find things more to your satisfaction in SC2.

 

Or maybe Hydras shoot acidic spines.

I just demeaned this entire thread, didn't I?

 

Maybe Battlecruisers have low-hanging testicles below them, and that's what Marines and Hydralisks are shooting at? I think that's how it works for Overlords, at least.

 

ok ;D

overlord and battlecruiser? give me a break :no:

 

Weren't you gonna stop spamming? I remember you apologizing for that in another topic.
(posting multiple posts after each other, posting a comment with only: