Before we begin, let me introduce myself. I am founder of Jade Wars modding community. We are an active mapmaking group (not clan) in Warcraft III FT and basically, we love making maps! After hearing the BlizzCon 2009 and the news about Bnet 2.0 marketplace, we've decided that we are going to create a special project awaiting in Starcraft II. We hope this project will serve, guide, and entertain our Starcraft II fans! The project is named GaC: Guns and Claws Before we had it named GEAR: Ghost Engineer, Assault, Recon - however, due to a change in the game concept, we thought the name GaC is better. Why Guns and Claws? Simply, the game is a battle between Terran force and Zerg force. Guns and Claws, get it? lol. The idea is to create a Battlefield 2 gameplay while retaining some memorable features in Starcraft II. In each team, a random player or a player can choose/vote to be the Leader. The leader of the Terran force is called Commander, the commander will stay in Command Center located in Terran base, and he/she can do map recon, laser shower (like artillery), research, and build buildings. The leader of the Zerg force is a Worker who will stay in Hatchling, have the same capabilities, except it can build buildings anywhere. The mission of the game is to Destroy Command Center or Hatchling. Each terran unit, be it Ghost, Marine, Medic, etc... have the option to upgrade their weapon, abilities, and class through HQ. Meanwhile zerg units can choose to evolve, yet also through Hatchling. Along the map path between each base, are resource points that each force must conquer to gain economic advantage. Building certain buildings allows spawning of AI troops/aliens that will attack the enemy base. These buildings however require resources, duh! Placement of buildings will be very important, determines which path the AI's will attack trough. However we haven't figured out the terrain nor how many road paths in the map. Basically it will be a very cooperative game, much like that in Battlefield 2, however it will be scaled down to a small number of players lets say 5v5 - 10v10 (if possible), hence making it more balanced. Don't expect this to be an extravaganza of DotA, we are simply trying to create a basic map that we can further develop once we get to know the possibilities of the galaxy editor.
I've seen several versions of this concept in SC1. It's a fairly common (though possibly not heavily played) thing, so you'll probably see a lot of competition in this area, in SC2. I'm personally strongly interested in mapmaking in SC2. I never got into WC3, and I found the SC1 editor to be too tiring to make maps with hundreds of triggers. A quick answer to one of your uncertainties: SC2 custom multiplayer matches can have up to 12 players, meaning you can get two teams of 6. Some questions: I've never played Battlefield 2: how do you intend to established the tight-knit team-based gameplay that you describe? How do you intend to differentiate this game from other games with a similar theme? It comes across as Chain of Command + DotA lite. Lots of people will be doing stuff like this. Will it be hero-centric for the non-commander players? Or will they be able to command multiple units, or even medium-large squads?
Some questions... 1) What do the non-leaders do? 2) What happens if some kinda noob took the role of being commander? Could we exchange places? 3)Is it third-person, or do you see it from a bird's eye-view? 4) I love battlefield 2, but could you be more specific on how this map will be able to incorporate its elements?
First of all if you haven't played Battlefield 2, its a first person shooter game where massive amounts of players combat in an attrition warfare. We are planning fully customize the UI and make the gameplay 3rd person shooter, like the Ghost preview in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joNPrnY4K_4 I've never played Battlefield 2: how do you intend to established the tight-knit team-based gameplay that you describe? Classification of roles makes the gameplay tight knit, a combat that will likely take place when trying to capture a resource point, attack/defend base will require diversification of roles. Roles include medic, engineer, ghost, marine, etc... We haven't really figured out the zerg roles yet. How do you intend to differentiate this game from other games with a similar theme? It comes across as Chain of Command + DotA lite. Lots of people will be doing stuff like this. We won't need to worry about differentiating our game, we are aiming to be the first to make it. Will it be hero-centric for the non-commander players? Or will they be able to command multiple units, or even medium-large squads? They will have a custom UI stored where they can call commands, sort of like taunts where different commands triggers different reactions from the AI troops that are spawned by the buildings (buildings builded by Commander). One example of a command is a simple Follow me! 1) What do the non-leaders do? Perform most battle tasks, they go to the fields and capture resource point, command spawned units, and try to defeat the enemy. 2) What happens if some kinda noob took the role of being commander? Could we exchange places? There can be a veto, the commander is also voted. 3)Is it third-person, or do you see it from a bird's eye-view? 3rd person baby! 4) I love battlefield 2, but could you be more specific on how this map will be able to incorporate its elements? Specifically, players at the start of the game can choose a class with unique weapons, which can also be upgraded. If they die, they have the option to change or retain their class. We really have thought about the classes for Terran, but the classes for Zerg is confusing, we really need to have the game in our sight! Basically you can treat the resource points like capture points in Bf2 except that the aim of capturing those points is not to weaken the enemy but to strengthen your team's economic advantage. In Bf2, capturing those points makes the enemy ticket reduce faster. In this game, there won't be any ticket, you just have to destroy the enemy CC or hive. The commander like in Bf2 can issue to attack a position where he/she can drop supplies, put recon, or drop air strike! The commander however unlike in Bf2, can build buildings inside base, which can spawn AI troops. There are towers like in DotA to defend the base, and commanders can build towers outside base also! Though we have settled with the game concept, the details will still be unclear since we don't have the game yet. Yet we are so eager to plan it out already because we think the Sc2 engine is very powerful.
Not meaning to critize your ideas, it sounds good if you get it to work! However - I think that if you intend to get this map labeled as a premium map (which I believe are your intentions, unless I misunderstood your first post) - you need a much more original idea.
Sooo... let me get this straight. Everyone is in third-person mode, and the commander gets to open a window to place buildings, issue commands etc. If so, then suh---weet! However, do players get to command their own AI units (maybe the number of kills their squad gets earns them cash to buy more units)? And do they get to control them, as in get in them (like tanks, thor etc)? It will be rather difficult to combine RTS and FPS together in map editor though, if you ask me. Still, considering what the Galaxy editor has shown itself capable of, I wish you guys luck. It will no doubt be an ultimate success.
What makes a map labeled as a premium map is, not only its originality but also its fun factor, competitiveness, balance gameplay, and various strategies to implement. Take DotA for instance, it does not have the best original concept, the concept was taken of the AoS catalog and had many other DotA like predecors beforehand. However what makes it so great is that the developer successfully created a great level of gameplay and competitiveness, hence so many players keep playing DotA. The AI's will spawn according to the type of buildings and depots dropped by the commander, that is what makes the commander so powerful. All players, including the commander can command these AI's, once you tap into them, command them, etc, they will join your squadron. Other players will not be able to command the AI's in your squadron. We are thinking about vehicles but that is way too far ahead since we haven't had a look at the game or even the editor yet :wacko:... Though after seeing this video, there is no boundry for making this RTS game into a 3rd person combat thriller!
This is probably a dangerous assumption to be making. The idea you're talking about is generic enough that I wouldn't be surprised if Blizzard ships something similar with the game. There is also the fact that people- not just you, will have access to the editor all through beta- plenty of time for a lot of people to make a lot of stuff. Even if you do wind up being first, you'll eventually be buried in a pile of similar maps. With nothing to differentiate yourself, there'll be no floating to the top. Also- the fact that you're having problems figuring out Zerg roles sounds troubling. To me, as if you're just copy-pasting roles from Battlefield 2 without actually understanding what and why. Realistically- defining Zerg roles should not be any different from defining Terran roles- except for the fact that there is no analog on your template.
[Mod note: unnecessary quote removed.] I appreciate your comment, though it is discouraging to us, still we hold our values and expiriences in Warcraft III modding. We are modding wc3 maps at the same time planning ahead of this project, which includes trying to understand the types of units. Currently, we have only identified Terran units and this does not sound troubling to us knowing that we will fulfill the same process for Zerg units. On the other hand, we disagree with the fact that there wil be many other maps similar to our project, it has not been made or worked on before, we've clearly researched on this. Although on a level of originality, we do know that this is not the most original concept ever, but this is our first project yet to come more and more after we've expirienced deeply of the Sc2 engine. Our plan for this project is to be one of the first maps to entertain but also explore the possibilities of the engine. Hence, do not depend any criticism of originality of concept too much on this paper scrap planning, since we haven't yet touched the game or editor yet to express such detail.
Well, if you intend to explore the possibilities of the engine, it does imply that you intend to do things that aren't, well, obvious. Blizzard has stated, numerous times, that the engine is extremely powerful, and we've all seen some of the stuff it can do. The first projects will not likely be pushing the envelope on what the thing is capable of- no, not even yours. So why not work on what you want your game to be, and then figure out how to make it happen once you get a hold of the editor? It may not have been done before, but it is not the case that nobody has wanted to do it. The fact that it is very similar to an extremely popular game, and that several people are posting about how obvious it is, is a very strong indicator that other map makers will be attempting similar ideas. You seem to think that you'll be the only ones with WC3 modding experience, and the only ones with big plans for the SC2 engine- you're not. Now, it's all well and good if you intend to the project to be "practice" -but then why are you announcing it as if it is something we're all supposed to tingle in anticipation over?
You seem to have alot of negativity on us, yet we have nothing against you or this forum. Blizzard has stated numerous times, and we have listened numerous times :yes:. The fact that the engine is powerful makes us think that we should plan ahead to make a great project. You are assuming as if we're here to show off our WC3 modding expirience, no we are here to present a project that we hope will be a huge hit in Sc2. And no, we know that there are other people with WC3 Modding expirience who will mod in sc2 which is why we're planning ahead :yes: There are only two people in this thread that posted how obvious this game really is in their perception, while there are many posters not just in this thread but other forums that await this project with great anticipation. In our perception, our game concept is not as obvious as what you think it is. The most popular mod in Wc3 has the most obvious concept of AoS, which is why in this project we focus on the strength of gameplay and competitiveness instead. We're not expecting you to tingle with anticipation over this project, if you do then we are glad. We appreciate the critics and comments that users give to us, this is so that we could refine our project idea better.
