"Keeping the number of units limited"

So, I'm to lazy to find the exact quote but apparently it's the attitude of Blizzard to "limit the amount of units for each race for balance purposes and so that players understand all their options".

I think this is very very sad. Surely, in games, more choice = more fun, no matter how you look at it? Even if roles overlap, doesn't it just bring in more opportunity for creativity and ultimately less repetitive tactics? Would having firebats and goliaths in the game really hurt so much just because of a little overlap? (please note that I don't desparately want these specific units back, I just think you can't go wrong with more choice)

Agree/disagree?

Sure, we'll get a few more in the expansion but...

(PS I would also like to take this time to say that I dream about starcraft 2 way too often and it depresses me that the beta is coming to a close. I also need a life)

 

If a decent level of strategic depth is in a game fewer units is indeed better as it is clearer for the player what they must do and how they should do it. In SC2 singleplayer they do have many many more units but for multiplayer there is no reason for additional units....more units in my eyes actually limits choice as you are overwhelmed and you know that any of these 4-5 units would work so it doesn't really matter what you try.

Games like supreme commander, C&C etc have basically 3 units disguised behind 20+ this i find to be quite boring especially since the game itself doesn't offer much strategically or on the micro side of things. It also lends itself to 1 unit being spammed ironically as the overlap means that 1 unit can counter half of their army so your opponent has to dig deep in his unit archive to find a counter.

Overlap of course would also confuse new players and balance would be harder to achieve.

 

Well keep in mind that in the Single Player Campaign, there will be many units that are not in the Multiplayer, such as units from the first StarCraft (Wraith, Firebat, Goliath, Medic, Scout, among others)

Also as a bonus, I believe Blizzard has said that all units that were even cut from the game such as the Reaver, Soul Hunter, Cobra, Star Relic, Lurker and all the others will be available in the Galaxy Editor. So keep your hopes up!

Don't get depressed because the full game will be released in only 2 months! You can always play the first StarCraft until then.

 

The game will become more "muudy" with less clear counters and scouting will be less usefull, if you for example cant go mass zerglings against a barracks only terran, as he would have ability to build firebats.
So unless more mechanics are added (such as sea units), the number of units should be kept slim for making the game reactive and fast-paced.

 

I disagree with the Original Poster. And here is why.

I've played Spore. And I wanted to place down a building in one of the phases in the game and it said nope you have to design it first. And I had like a screenfull of choices to make this building. Took me 30 mins to sort through all the options to chooses the parts I liked. Then I had to take the parts and put them together to make the building. 1.5 hours after I started I had a nice building I was proud of. And in the end I thought too much choice. I would have been happier with 15-20 premade examples so I can just pick one. It would have been way quicker. And probably would have looked better then my one I designed.

And how this relates to SC2 is in the heat of battle there is little time to think. And if there is overlap as you say there would be a large number of units to do each task. For example, say I need some GTA to defend off a coming air assault. I don't want to be stuck thinking "Hmmm I have 15 good GTA units almost the same as each other, now which one would be better at this point in the game". By that I think of which one to pick, the enemy has over-run my base and I'm saying GG.

Having a small number of choices for each unit role in SC2 makes things easy. Then when I neet the good GTA units I can just spam that GTA unit with a few others got the random ground unit in the assualt and I'm set. almost zero time thinking and all time doing.

If you think too much about what to do before you do it, you will lose SC2 matches. And too many units = too much thinking.

 

you guys do realize this is a strat game, and that this does require a little thinking. how can u argue with the fact of rushing in the front of a base with marines and marauders but in the back ur sneaking in with ghosts and vikings, its hard to believe people think cutting down the idea of units is a good idea to make things SIMPLER thats outrageous i want to be proud of my victory on how goo i counter the zerg ith marines and vikings rather than 20 units vs 20 units

 

I didn't consider what ark posted above when I first read this thread but I guess he does make a point. However, as far as I know Blizzard chooses to keep thing simple so that you play the whole (AND NO ENTIRE, YA HEAR CROTA?!) game rather than just a fraction of it. To elaborate, consider the amount of overlap between units if the roster was increased. It is natural to go for a unit you know best (concerning dancing, etc.) and so the other units with similar roles would just get neglected. Not to mention that SC2 aims at the casual gamer as well, in which case confusion such as the one described by ark is a definite no-no.

It also helps keep the units distinct from each other concerning both their roles and graphical appearance, again making the game more diverse and not a race of spot-the-difference. Lastly, there have been discussions of chess with twists like 3 players (I've actually seen such a board, looks wicked ) and additional pieces but none of them ever gained popularity. And there must be a reason for it.

 

Adding more units this point in the game would be pointless. The Firebats are replaced by the reapers which are faster and are more mobile. Vultures are replaced by the hellions which are faster and roast the **** out of zerglings. The Lurkers where just a plain disappointment of a unit in BW. Most Zerg players had to rely on them too much. Scout was replaced by the Phoenix which isn't the best choice but still just as effective.

Too add more units like the Firebat back into SC2 would be pointless and serve really no point. Adding more units to the online would make your variety of units very slim and less counters to have on the different units which means next to no balance. There will be expansions that will possibly add more units to the online like Brood War did.

 

disagree.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html

 

Keep in mind all these units can come back in custom maps if they're available in the editor.. I'm sure someone will make a wicked remake of firebat defense (if not, I will )

 

Isn't the plan to release Starcraft 2 as three seperate campaigns and each release will be an expansion with an additional unit or two?
I was hoping Starcraft 2 would have slightly more units than the original game, just to allow plays to be more creative and give them more options late game for various strategies.

 

The issue you can run into then is you're more likely to be playing a game of rock paper scissors... the more units there are, the more broken strategy possibilities there are.

I think they'll add 2 more units total

 

I could see custom maps adding the campaign units for some non-competitive fun. But Starcraft 2 multi-player is intended to be perfectly balanced, and any unit increases the number of combination with other units, which makes game-breaking combos a lot more likely to occur.

 

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing when a lot of games I've played in the original Starcraft became a stalemate. If your opponent finds a game breaking combo, then they deserve to win because you have just as many options and combinations, and you should be able to match their force. I can't see it being a problem as long as every race has the same number of units.

How were Lurkers a disappointment when Zerg players relied on them a lot? Doesn't that mean they were important?

 

a game breaking combo makes all other units useless. Therefore, all those other units were added to the game in vain. Thus, the larger the number of units, the higher the chance that you only use a few

 

The thing is, overlap in roles is very bad. What happens is that if two units A and B have the same role, eventually the competitive community will come to a consensus that unit A is overall a better unit than unit B. Then for high level games it would pretty much be the case that unit B doesn't exist, except it's actually worse than that because low level players will not know this consensus and still get unit B, and lose countless games without even knowing why.

 

I think you can still do a lot without any overlap. Take the Zerg, for example. They don't have a flying suicide bomber anymore, so you could give them that. They removed Lurkers, so they could use a seige unit, or a unit that can attack while cloaked. They don't have a sniper unit, such as the way that the Queen's Spawn Broodlings were used in the original game or like the new Terran Ghost. It would be easy to make a unit that could function as both a ground to ground unit and an air to air unit like the Terran Viking. They Zerg could use something that can navigate up and down cliffs, maybe some sort of centipede or creature with small wings. They lack a ground unit that can do area/splash damage like a tank. They could use a unit that lobs projectiles, even if it has to be stationary when attacking. Since there is no Dark Swarm and the other races have Carriers and Battlecruiers, the Zerg would definitely benefit from a unit that does different attacks to ground and air like Goliaths.

 

It's not about roles, it's about usage.

 

If I had a Zerg unit similar to a Goliath that did more damage against air than ground, I'd use them over Hydras in certain situations. For example, I would use them against carriers and battlecruisers, especially since there's no more Dark Swarm. There's plenty of room for more units without overlap.

 

But if you did that, all other races would need an extra unit too.
And then you add another, so all the the other races also need an extra unit again.

And in the end, all the roles are filled for every race.
And then there is only a single race with 3 different looks.