New Terrain Features

Another day, time for another issue to discuss!

With new engine, Blizzard is trying to introduce new Terrain features and make them significant part of the gameplay. Ofcourse there will be alot of these goodies in singleplayer, but I am more concered with the Multiplayer bit.
So far I only saw the use of destructable barriers, golden minerals and heard something about 3d bridges but there has been also some non-gameplay effects such as Volcanic explosion, which unfortunetly got removed because the players got often confused when they saw strange fireballs flying through their base.

Lets open the debate to you now:
What do you think about the increased significance of the terrain features? Why do you think so? Do you have any suggestions for existing or new features? Is SubTachyon the best comrade in the World?

You also might want to visit:
http://www.starcraft2forum.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=47&topic=4835.0
For Terrain - Unit Speed suggestion.


My opinion on this issue is that it is nice having few terrain features in few maps.
Some exp. blocked here and there on couple of maps is all I need. I dont want any features which could damage or kill you units or affect battles in any radical way because these things are often only about luck. I also want some maps to stay the same way as in SCI so people can chose if to play with or without them. I like the golden minerals idea and I hope that Blizzard will include it in some feasable way.

I have nothing against crazy features in singleplayer or map editor, but NOT in standart muliplayer map.

 

i want it to have as much physics as possible, that includes terrain to make it interesting..

like how if youre up at a higher elevation, your accuracy is better

 

Ya put some in but dont make it a huge thing. It would suck to make a giant army just to have an earthquake kill most of your units.

 

not like that... i meant the water.. the hills, the canyons..

 

oh OK i get it. Ya but again not to much cause it could increase the system requirements quite a bit.

 

well, it i guess that should be in the HIGH HIGH QUALITY selection WITH HARDCORE PHYSICS enabled then, this wont be an issue because most people already play games that hare graphics intensive and a good graphics card or always feel that they want to be update and they upgrade

 

Ya but there are people who would like to play this game but those physics would keep them from doing so. Like me for examle. I got a pretty good computer but to many physics kill it.

 

well, im not saying that the landscape should damage the units, but what im talking about is like subtle things like a bird flying in the canyon, like those kinds, like water slowing the unit down a bit and etc... its not like if a bird flies by and youre like, "omfg its a bird, its sooo pretty"

 

Ya thats what im saying. Little things, nothing major.

 

thats what i was talking about, but just so people are picky, blizzard should include an option of disabling and enabling it so that some users dont see the details of what is happening

 

A few Ideas about doodads-

Manmade Rivers/Dams-A river has two paths, both very seperate from each other. One of the paths is dry. However, when a worker comes to a switch and *uses* it, the river starts to flow into another path. This would be awesome if you were trying to run away from the enmy or setting up an ambush and the enemy doesn't know about it. It's be especially good if the switch was always randomized, like maybe sometimes under a destructable rock, maybe in a tree. It wouldn't show up on the map. Any units in the way of the water would be killed/pushed out of the way as if a unit were unburrowing or a supply depot were rising.

Permanently Changeable Rivers- rivers that are blocked by destructable rocks and so flow in another path. When the rocks are destroyed, however, the river changes direction. the river can not be changed back. Everything else is the same as above.

Destructable Doodads- You are able to attack all rocks and vegetation. However, the unbreakable ones have infinite life. This way, if you know that a rock has 1000 HP, and you attack at it for ten minutes with tanks,but it's still fine, you know it's not a destroyable rock. In turn, though, they would expose crazy expansions and space or ambush routes.

Random doodads- destructable doodads and switches can be randomly placed, so it's always different everytime you play it. Would open many strategies when used with destructable doodads.

For example, there is one open path leading from one base, and 5 other hidden paths, blocked by rocks/vegetation. One of the paths always has a destroyable doodad blocking it, but it's always random. This could make way for a great strategy for both sides. For the owner of the base:

-GO with normal plan, don't risk wasting time on finding the path
-Look for the hidden path with all you've got and set up defenses in case. When you find the right one, you can ambush the enemy's troops and come from behind
-Do a combination. Attack, but at the same time, set up a small set of units that try to find the right path.
-Set up defenses around each exit in case the enemy finds the right path and destroys the rock.

For the enemy, it'd be

-You know each of the exits of the 5 hidden paths. Go into it and fire at each path and try to find the right one. Fire at all of them. It'll be worth it.
-Normal plan. You'll never get the right one
-Set up defenses around the exits. He might find the right one and ambush you.
-Etc

It'd be cool.

Overhead shielders-Canopy style trees; high lava walls; floating roofs; dense, immobile clouds. These can be placed in maps (Depending on the tileset) and they block aircraft fomr passing over them and obscure the player's view of the place. So, these doodads can prevent players from just flying to a secret base that are only accessible by a path blocked by a destructable rock.

Quicksand-No, it won't kill units. However, it will make units slower and unless the units get out quickly, they get stuck. SO if a marine walks into quicksand and doesn't come out in 10 seconds, he will get stuck and can only get out by waiting for a minute(Time can vary, of course) or by a dropship.

Climbable Trees-All trees can be climbed by infantry such as marines, and when on top, the infantry has a farther range and LOS of the ground. In addition, the infantry becomes level with cliffs, so they don't have that 70% shot chance penalty. However, it takes a few seconds to get up and down and the unit can be seen from farther away.


That's it... More to come =D

 

perfect!! also, it would be nice to have your attacks affecting the landscape as well, like in campaign mode, you need to build a unit to destroy an obstacle blocking your way.

 

Interesting. The river one would make some good UMS games. A race to get to a switch. Get to it before the other team or the dam will open and the river will destroy your whole base.

 

There are already destroyable rocks blocking ramps and chokes in sc2, although all units can damage them.

lol... Send your 4th worker and hope you weren't experiencing any lag during the first second of the game. Sounds fun.

 

I like it aslong as it does not add another element that needs microing, or a random chansing of which path my enemy might take. Risk of losing a game because of random elements is not very likley to make it into any kind of competitive map in SC2.

 

Here's an idea:

Since most of the terrain seems overly Terran and Zerg, why not have Protoss ruins in areas of the field? A destroyed Mothership, harmless but still moving machinery. At least someone could try for a pair of Zealots sissy-fighting each other.

 

I wouldn't mind pretty little effects like streams that you can walk through, the occasional pebble falling down a cliff side, or butterflies chasing each other in meadows, but if it were snow that hindered sight and unit movement, earthquakes that damaged your armies, etc., I'd hate it and Blizzard would be making a bad move if they would add dangerous environments.

 

Agreed. If Blizzard decides to be a donkeys rear end, then egging their homes is our next best option.

If Blizzard made this an optional effect, which all players in that game agreed on having, then the game would be fair. Otherwise, it should just be removed.

 

Of course we're going to have silly little shenanigames where there will be terrain triggers for whatever game you're playing or designing. Like some of the WC3 "co-op" games that people spend days making.

But even if there was an option to vote for hazard zones on your map, I'd still be reluctant to play any map with that chance.

 

It would be good to have different and interesting terrain features, many like Major Willy said, except I doubt there would be butterflies on most of these planets, but nothing that would alter the course of the game. I read an idea earlier about man-made dams that could be destroyed to unleash a torrent of water at your enemies. This is what I'm talking about. Ideas like these, although they should be able to be utilised in the Map Editor and possibly a select few missions, shouldn't be included in standards games. If someone pulls off a lucky activation of the dam and manages to wipe out their enemies army, or maybe pulls of an unlucky activation and manages to wipe out their own army, then a lot more of the game would be based on luck. Things like destructible rocks, etc, are good because they might have a small effect on that map by just making certain areas harder to get to, etc, but they definitely wouldn't alter the outcome of the game.