No faith?

mmkay, we had this argument in our theology class:

our instructor asked "do you guys believe in God? Why do you think he is real?" (note: this is a class where we talk about God's words and Jesus' teachings, NOT a class where religion is shoved down our throats..anyways)

one guy said "Just because you cant see or feel God, doesn't mean he doesn't exist",
then another one said "well it also doesn't mean he DOES exist"

now, one thing i can observe is that one guy is relying on faith alone...
other one is relying on science and facts...

which side would you be on?

 

He's actually not residing on science, just so you know.

We can't see or feel microparticles, so...

Anyways, I'm a faithful guy.


Also, my all seeing eye is on this thread. No bashing either way. After the ****storm the Morals thread turned into, I'm not putting up with ANY insults at all.

 

Unless I'm shown irrefutable evidence of an all mighty being, I will not believe in him/her/it/they.

 

Aethiest, it bothers me not at all when someone is of religion, just don't use it to opresse me or people close to me(few that they are, lucky people), or try and convert me.

 

i will see if religion is true when i am dead


no really, that is my actual plan

 

I believe that there is some kind of intelligent force behind the universe, but what or who it is I can not be for certain. I really don't think "God" is your cliche man in a robe with a beard sitting up in heaven but more like an singular collective conscious entity or some kind of presence that is just there. Although "God" could very well be a cliche old man with a beard as well.

I think people are too set with the idea that it is just some all powerful all knowing being sitting up watching everyone and making rules. God could be a multitude of enitites or forces too. Also, just because we have no knowledge or can't preceive it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Similar how to early man had no idea of micro organisms or could see them but they have always been there even longer than man. The thing is there is nothing that proves or disproves the "God" theory yet.

 

No one knows whether or not god exists, regardless of form. Purely through what you quoted the only assumption I can make is that both are agnostics because neither said that god does or does not exist.

Science encompasses both "Just because you cant see or feel God, doesn't mean he doesn't exist" and "well it also doesn't mean he DOES exist" in that it dictates that no hypothesis or test can be done to show any results.

Both people were also acting in faith because they chose to ignore what i stated above. I would be on both sides as we are all agnostics at heart.

 

Well, I am a man of faith and believe in God. The odd part is, I dont go to Church, read the Bible, but no matter what, (no one can convince me) that he doesnt exist its weird. As for science/facts, honestly, everything is based on faith, we cant KNOW if ANYTHING is true if you ask me. Ill sound stupid but it goes back to the whole "If a tree falls and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound" I fall back to the fact that we cant know for sure about anything. For all we know, tomorrow we will wake up to a "Matrix" like world, or whatever. Do I believe the world is just an illusion of my mind? No, but I dont like hearing "THIS IS FACT" because quite frankly, we have to trust what we see is true, we have to have faith.

But thats just my thoughts, I have engraved in my mind that I believe in an ultimate being called God and that everything is based on faith. I am VERY intrigued with the human mind, and its capabilities, which probably stems my belief in everything comes down to us and what we accept as fact.

 

*copies what Dark said right here* I agree whole heartily.

 

No. Not everything is based on faith, dont say such ignorant things. We can KNOW a lot of things sir. If people actually learned the basics of what is jusified by evidence instead of eagerly seek a gap in present-day knowledge or understanding and then immediatly assuming that God by defult must fill it, then the world would be a much better place.

Belief in god is irrelevant, we dont need it, and frankly if you choose to latch onto such an absurd idea just so you can justify anything that is outside of your knowledge and get a bit more self motivation then fine; Live in an awe of ignorance.

But as Douglas Adams said: 'Isnt it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom too?'

 

I believe in God. I'm a very sciencey person and i love studying up on it, laws of gravity, inertia, all sorts of really cool things scientists and mathematicians have figured out. Still, however, I believe there is a central being or collection of beings called God (Chef really expressed my own thoughts here about the whole God thing) that runs the gears of things. I still believe the earth was created by science means, i still believe in evolution, but I also believe in God. I don't think science and the idea of God conflict, but rather enhance each other. And i think anyone has a right to believe what they want, too. I knew a girl who was a satanist and she was really nice

 

I believe that.. if there is a god, it/he/she is unlike anything we've ever seen/read/imagined. I'd picture him more like an alien with superpowers than anything else. Still of course, If I'd have to bet my life on something, I'd bet that there is no god.

@Kurai: Indeed both the idea of science and religion don't collide with each other... unless of course you're a fundamentalist, in which case we're at an opposition. Ofc this is not your case but it is the case of many. And that IS a problem. I mean, it's ok for people to believe in whatever they want, so long as they, in turn, respect the other person's belief. This applies to everything science-related including stem cells, abortion, atheism in general, etcetcetc. In those cases, Religion is nothing more than an obstacle to human development imo.

And then again, sure.. you can believe in something you can't see or feel, but.. if you do, you could believe in anything. Do you believe in santa? D: . Atoms and such do not apply because we can actually see them through the help of a microscope. Even quantums can, at the very least, be mathematically proven to exist.

And finally.. what is the point in believing? :
Eternity in heaven? By the year 100.000 in heaven you'll wish you were dead. People can't grasp the fact that Eternity is.. well.. eternal. And that is a torture in itself. We people are meant to have an end

Perhaps.. you're afraid of defying him. Well, if he's as benevolent as everyone seems to portray him.. then he will understand the reasons behind your disbelief and forgive you.

Or maybe you believe in him because everyone around you does, and you never gave it a though. In that case you don't belong to this thread

Whew.. got carried away

 

I feel that there needs to be a central entity of all the goodness in this world. That in a world like this, there is still a force out there doing its work that will help people to make good choices and do the right things. I guess ou can call it morals, or love, but i believe there is such a force at work, even in our corrupt society. I believe him not because i am afraid (though i am, but this would never stop me from not believing), not because others do /(i pride myself in being different), not for an eternity (the thought dissuades me, if anything).

I believe him because it's what I believe. I have looked at my religion, and at others, and have decided this one suits by beliefs best. Even though i was raised catholic, i have had many of my own chances to change my faith. However, why would i want to? I like the essence of being equal, of being out for one another, for loving others, gor giving to others, for believing there is a greater good that drives all of us, that there is a reason for us not to kill one another. It enforces what i believe, so though I disagree with the church on several things I also believe the main message and basis of the religion as a whole.

 

You pick and choose which bits of scripture to believe, which bits to write off as symbols or allegories. Such picking and choosing is a matter of personal decision, just as much, or as little, as the atheist's decision to follow this moral precept or that was a personal decision, without an absolute foundation. If one of these is ‘morality flying by the seat of its pants’, so is the other.

 

I don't nessecarily belive this I belive that everyone is basicly evil but by the grace of God we can do good but there is no one in this world that is compleatly good.

 

Funny thing, isn't large part of that justified evidence based on Uncertainity Principle, which pretty much says "If we don't know how it works, it must be random"?

 

No, no it isnt .

Natural selection is commonly put across in the way you said, but it really isnt. I would reccomend researching into it.

 

Heyo! I signed up to this forum just for this thread... i guess it is worth venturing into the darkness with my lamp because i owe this forum 1. The helpful posts from members of this forum enabled me and my friend to have a great time today with SC.

So here goes...

Funny that. It most likely will not happen, but God willing something like Him showing up in your life in all his majesty, then you'd fall into the same boat as us... desperately trying to convince the rest of the world that He exists, and that He is awesome, but yet never really taken seriously (probably called delusional). Or worse still get beaten up or killed. Sweet

Although i do respect that everyone has a choice, suppose you did find something life changing that was REALLY good, and it was so awesome that it compelled you to tell others. Well that's what Christians are like, some are young in their journey so they may be pushy or take bad approaches, but we mean good, and our gift is also good.

Of course once more - you have a right to refuse - even if the gift (which you are not be aware of) is awesome beyond your imagination. But if i may, i would like to suggest that when we do tell people about Jesus and the Gospel, it is meant to be out of love and much like perhaps your parents telling you when you were young what is good, even though you at the time may not understand.

So don't see as us arrogant people out to prove superiority, we're meant to be people in pursuit of humility, out there to reach those that are in need of saving. But of course we wouldn't know who needed saving unless we indeed conversed with people and told them of the Good News.

By then it would probably be too late, and although you might not care now, i wonder if you would feel the same then when you are being ushered into hell for eternity. What a lovely thought.

;>

 

And yet you refrain from arguing any points i have made.
You are a Christian. Which means on such terms you believe the bible is the unfaltering word of God.

Now tell me; Why do you openly admit to being christian and thus the advocation of a deity who supports such horrible acts as slavery, homophobia, sexism etc?

Or do you not read the bible?

 

if i go to hell for not commiting any crimes, or treating people unfair, but things like sex before marriage and an open mind, i wouldnt even want to go to heaven, everyone is so close minded there