Overlord SC1 vs Overseer SC2

I am concerned on the change from SC1 to SC2 on the overlord.

Blizzard is making the overlord to mutate to the overseer in order to get its detection. They are doing it because it was too difficult to attack a zerg with cloacked units, they say it was "detectorific"

But as far as I know, it was also part of the balance. Because Protoss had invisible detectors which was really hard to kill, you need to spot them first, which is not quite easy, then you need to attack them avoiding any carriers or any other ship protecting them. While the terrans, okay the got the science vessels which were almost easy to kill as the overlord if you decide just to kill them before attacking cloacked, but terrans got the sensor rescue for those moments where no detector were available. I know zergs got detectors since the beginning of the game and lots of them, but they were really easy targets for cloacked wraiths who were hunting them, or cloacked units behind an arbiter. If not why they place devourers which attack was a goo which revealed those units hit before the overlord was killed, or why the ensenare and plague could also reveal cloacked units, because the overlord itself was enough.
In SC2 both abilities remain, the unseen obsverver and the sensor from the command center, but they made a requirement for the overlord to be mutated to an overseer in order to be detector, removed plague, ensenare and devourers goo leaving the overseer alone and defenseless, which unless it has double hp or its mutation is free its not making any good for the balance on the game.

Dont you think so??

 

Well for one the overlord was much cheaper than the sci vessel and observer (both of which take gas to build and are late game units) comes earlier and not only costs 0 pop but gives MORE population. It was hard to attack a zerg base with cloaked units because a zerg base has so many overlords.

I like the change because it means the zerg have to spend some extra money on detection and might actually be susceptible to cloaked attackers early on


Also this goes in th zerg section

 

LOL i look at it this way, its now easyer to nuke zerg

 

I like it! The game is getting even more stealth oriented, which is good! Zerg was really to hard to kill with cloaked... Only some very good protoss players have won with the Bisu build + DT + corsairs. And that was only because they got a good fleat of corsairs, able to kill all the Overlords, and because the Zerg sometimes took too many expos.

 

You are right furrer, and by the way SC1 was balanced that way, SC2 will be balanced in an other way, I think the new overlord-overseer are yust as good as the old overlord, in fact they are better, with their new abilities.

 

Don't forget that the Overseer adds additional control over the Overlord (I believe it is 12 instead of 8) and has a passive sight range bonus, when sitting still, that allows it to detect over huge areas. The Overseer will be a lot like the Sensor Tower, except it flies and doesn't have a "warning ring" around it.

Giving the Zerg reasons to worry about cloaked units, early-game will also make it possible to use Dark Templar, Banshees, and Ghosts on the Zerg, when it was previously impractical.

 

Gameplay wise it makes perfect sense for the reason Neon mentioned, but I'm eager to see the lore behind overlords losing their detection

 

its not really the overlord losing it, when karrigan messed with their genes and found out that overdseers can do the job better, what usally happens when one thing coes something better then another thing?, the first thing makes the second thing obsolete.

 

But that's just it, the overlord could detect without having to evolve (into overseer), so they actually do it better.

Also, when something evolves, it loses redundant body parts and abilities and makes its useful ones better. The SC1 ovy in 4 years evolved into the SC2 ovy by being less useful

 

yes overseers lose to overlord about the detection when they have the same sight range, from Jon, i heard that you will only need about 5-7 or so overseers to see all the map and any cloaked units, now that i think is an improvement and maybe a little overpowering. sure overlords losing detection is a downside to them, but remember kerrigan is/was governing the way they mutated. so in the end it was her choice that overlord lost detection.

 

Like I said, gameplay wise I see the reason behind removing detection and I know that overseers will be much more useful and worth upgrading to. All I'm saying is, I'm curious as to what Blizzard will come up with as the story.

 

sorry i just edited my post before yours here giving the reason, or at least what its most likely to be.

 

I think Overseer mutation is a step backward for Zerg. People only think about how Zerg has a free detector in the beginning, how ovies are cheap, and how Zerg have so many. Why do you think Zerg gets so many ovies? What other race is vulnerable to a supply hunt? Universally known as ovie hunt, actually. Everytime you kill a Zerg detector? There goes our supply. Everytime you kill a Zerg transport? There goes our supply.

The "all Zerg transports are detectors are supply buildings(units)" concept is a big racial identity for the Zerg. Now in SC2, Zerg still keep the same dangers and vulnerabilities, except with added inconvenience and danger. Great. I don't know WTF Blizzard thinks they're doing, but while they improved P and T greatly, the nerfed the hell out of Z. So far, almost everything revealed for the Zerg is worse than before, nothing is really good. Hope we get to see some Zerg changes soon.

 

people may talk about the natural process that evolution goes, but kerrigan is really controling what is thrown away or added, tho it is limit a little for some creatures than others( the queen ), i really think that the overlord still should have detection but we will not be able to increase its sight range, thats where the overseer fits in, it being an improvement at most of the stuff that overlords can do, but then its just a copy of the overlord, i think they really want the overseers increasing sight range ability, should i call it an ability?, anyway yes most of the units that the zergs have right now when you look at all the units togther, seems to me anyway, to be not quite right for the zerg lineup.

my 2 cent,.........................................someone just earned a penny ^_^

 

Zerg evolution is a misnomer; it's actually eugenics.

Rreally I don't mind the Overlord thing either way. Sepparating the transport and detector out is nice since it gives you some redundancy. You no longer have to lose supply when you send units out for transport or detection and the new transport is burrowed. of course everything in one package unit was one of their traits that made overlotrds a bargain unit and I hate to see that usefullness go.

 

If they want the Zerg to be vulnerable to cloak strats, they might as well do away with overlord/overseer altogether. Just have the Zerg detector as a separate unit. Then at least there's a small chance that when an enemy is bent on pulling cloak, they might not decide to completely rape our supply while they're at it.

Another thing is, things done to Zerg, especially in comparison to other races, have been hugely unfair. Even this overseer thing is the same. Not just the stuff I said so far, but look at the big picture. Blizzard nerfed Zerg's detector to make Zerg open to cloak strats, yet, Zerg is not given a true-cloak unit or mechanic to compete in return. Zerg never had true-cloak, no units were able to move and attack while undetectable full-time. Whether it is energy based, just perma, or anything, Zerg's just never had it. Which was why it was fine for Zerg to automatically have detectors all the time. Now we're just hit with nerf after nerf, but given little in return. Load of BS if you ask me.

But the sad thing is, Zerg has in fact always been vulnerable to cloak strats. Because Zerg is vulnerable to supply hunting, that in turn, makes Zerg vulnerable to cloak as well. This is true even at the pro level. It looks bleek as hell from the Zerg's point of view, yet there are people act as if the overlord was some kind of cheap advantage. Obviously those people never played Zerg competitively.

 

But Zerg has more cloakable units now. Now EVERY ground unit can burrow, and Infestors can tunnel (I know that you'd like an actual combat unit to tunnel though). Burrowing in order to cloak is another Zerg trait IMO. All other cloakers/permacloakers can still be seen as blurry shapes, just not attacked.
Only Zerg will be able to perform actual ambushes.

That being said, I don't think that Zerg should have moving cloakers (Infester excused).

The Overlord should detect again, though. They have taken away its ability to transport, too. What will you actually do with Overlords? In SC1 you tried to spread them out to give vision and detection, and you brought them with you during battles to detect, and you used them for drops.
In SC2 they will just give supply. All you will do is protect them.

 

Having the Overseer simply puts Zerg on the same par detection-wise as the other races thus losing diversity.
The fact they had detection everywhere, made the players employ different tactics. Examples such as:
Corsair rush the Overlords and send in the Dark Templars.
Precision Scourge attacks to allow Lurkers to move in.
Wraiths fry the Overlords then mineral line.

I wonder if Spore Colonies can still detect. I hope so.

 

My guess is yes. They removed the Clutch and reinstated the Sunken and Spore Colony. The Clutch worked in coalition with the Shrieker, but with the Clutch gone, the Shrieker and it's detection might have been removed, making Spores detect instead.

On another note; I find it weird that both the Queen and Overlord can expand creep. It makes Overlords even less useful. I feel sorry for them. They should atleast be allowed to puke a little creep out, now that they can neither detect or transport. They could even remove the Colony's ability to extend creep, and let Overlords and Hatcherys take care of that.

 

hay i know where the overlord lost the ability to hold units and see invisble units. its to busy getting ready to throw up its lunch