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Protoss disadvantage?

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by Anarticpulse, Jul 19, 2010.

Protoss disadvantage?

Discussion in 'Protoss' started by Anarticpulse, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Anarticpulse

    Anarticpulse Guest

    From what I've been reading on forums around here and several other places it seems like the Terrain has better units and an easier time countering Protoss than Protoss, Terrain. I've also heard that Zerg is the most underpowered faction. It's a shame as I was considering Protoss or Zerg. It is false information, or is there some truth to this?
     
  2. sniper64

    sniper64 New Member

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    It's sort of hard to explain, a lot of people say the Zerg are weak, and the Protoss are second weakest. With the Terran being overpowered. My personal opinion is that it takes a very good player to beat a very good Terran. The Protoss are probably the most balanced, as I usually don't hear people complaining of them. It's more the Zerg and Terran.

    The overall balance is quite great, in my opinion, some tweaks for Zerg and Terran.
    (Also, most of the people complaining don't understand the game that much, I wouldn't worry about it)
     
  3. domanz

    domanz New Member

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    Well, I myself as a zerg, have a harder time against protoss than against terran. The zealot/sentry/stalker combo is quite efficient against zerg, I am still searching for a good counter. If the protoss goes air with void rays before zerg has a decent amount of hydras or mutas, it's game over too, provided the toss has SOMETHING protecting his base from a counter.
     
  4. DarkCommander

    DarkCommander New Member

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    The game is very well balanced in my opinion. I don't see why some people say Terrans are overpowered. I would bet my 10$ that they are frustrated because they are not good enough to win against terrans so they immediately say: Terrans are overpowered! Meh...

    I play Terrans not because I think they are the best faction, but because I love their units. The Maurauders and Marines are my favorite units of the game.


    Also: I see players play very well with protoss and with zerg. For example Sen or Dimaga or Idra. Sen beat WhiteRa in a best out of 5 I believe. WhiteRa using Protoss. So don't worry buddy, everyone can win with every faction. It is just a matter of how you use Zerg, Protoss or Terrans that counts not some people who say something just because they have a bad record against the Terrans.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  5. sniper64

    sniper64 New Member

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    Might I add, your a Terran player.

    I have beaten many diamond players, i'm only in gold. I play Protoss, but once I play against a Terran, it immediately becomes a pain. It is only when they go tanks, stop early pushes and turtle up when they are to strong for my tastes. If you havn't noticed, even when pros play. The Terran mech most often wins, your a Terran player. Of course you say people only call your race op because of how bad they are. Zerg are my easiest race to claim victory, then Protoss, then Terran.

    Yes it is a matter of how you use the race, but sometimes, it doesn't work that way.

    Can I beat Terran players? Yes.

    Is it much more difficult than the other two races? Yes.
     
  6. DarkCommander

    DarkCommander New Member

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    I play every faction. I just prefer the Terrans but I play Zerg, Protoss and Terrans. I must admit beating Terrans is harder.
     
  7. sniper64

    sniper64 New Member

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  8. sirchiken

    sirchiken New Member

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    i heard on the korean servers that zerg is the most popular i just think in the states people just havnt learned to use them to their potential yet. at the same time i dont think that terran is op i just think marauders are op in the early to mid game because as a protoss player they are a real pain in the *** wo/ storm or collosus. then i think protoss is pretty balanced also noobs like to be protoss bc they look sweet and i dont blame them
     
  9. Ares

    Ares Guest

    terran isnt imba, theres just a massive distinction between terran bio and terran mech.. so a "counter" is far more effective OR ineffective against terran than it would be against p or z.
     
  10. Odysseus

    Odysseus New Member

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    I found out that in the late game, when Terrans are often massing Tanks, Thors and Marodeurs, you need to make one big tech switch - to void rays. Make sure that he does not spot your 4-6 Stargates and start pumping out void rays. Then sarrifice your ground army to his tank line, which will make him smile and expect an easy victory. Just now move out with 12+ chronoboosted void rays, directly into his main base. (And continue producing even more.) I tried this 3 times (one of them being a 2vs2 in which my ally was kicked out some minutes ago) and I won all of them.

    OK, saying "you need to make a tech switch" is kind of a silly and basic hint, but it actually pays off. But in this concrete situation - a superior Terran force in late game, which is typically not so extremely good in beating air units - viod rays are even better than in many, many other situations where they just suck.

    This strategy will however not work if your opponent is massing Vikings, of course.
     
  11. DarkCommander

    DarkCommander New Member

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    Why sacrificing when you can use your ground army with the void rays you've made to beat him? Sacrificing your whole ground army is just insane. Or attract his army far from his main by attacking an expo(if that expo is isolated) and then when he comes with his army you retreat without huge losses. But in the meantime your 8 Void rays charge on his command center and then you can destroy alot of key building. No need to sacrifice.

    Also, in my opinion going from gateway and maybe robot facility army into a mass void isn't that easy and its a pretty radical transition. I would rather make my transition into Immortals which destroy any of the Thors/Tanks/Maurauders units pretty easely.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  12. Caiaphas

    Caiaphas New Member

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    Now I realize I am a Terran player and everyone is going to think I am biased, but here is what I have to say.

    As a Terran player, Protoss is the hardest match up for me, so therefore, PROTOSS IS OP OMG OMG OMG.

    Terran Mech really isn't hard to defeat. A mech army is so immobile, and in order to defend every corner of your base you'd have to spread yourself out. So if they don't spread themselves out and simply defend their choke, you do drops. Once they move their army to defend against the drop, you attack from the front. If they split their army to defend from the drops and to defend the choke, you bring all your forces through the choke so you can destroy their army in pieces rather than head on.

    That's irrelevant. Even if all of the races were completely balanced, that doesn't mean that there would be 3 Terran, 3 Protoss, 3 Zerg, and 1 Random (just to even it out) in the top ten. Players are going to have preferences with which race they play, and when those races are balanced then their mechanics and strategy is what's getting them into the top ten, even if there is a preference for one of the balanced races.

    Either way later on in the thread someone says that in the top 50, 21 were Protoss, 20 were Terran, 7 were Zerg, and 2 were Random. If anything Zerg needs a buff and that's it. I honestly think Protoss vs. Terran is pretty even right now since people keep complaining about both sides of it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  13. DarkCommander

    DarkCommander New Member

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    I agree with you totally. I must say that instead of complaining about a race being overpowered, the people who complain should definetly look at the match from a different angle. The best way to do this is to save the replay and see what you did wrong(to ameliorate it or not to do this error again) and what you did well(so that in future games you remember how useful it was to scout the area before attacking or whatever you did well).

    I saw a brilliant use of Baneling from Dimaga against WhiteRa in a tourney. And yes, Zerg beat Protoss and the protoss was whitera :O. Nothing is impossible, whitera made some errors under the presure of zerglings and banelings.

    I just dislike it so much when people say something is overpowered. When I was 6 and I played starcraft 1 with my cousin. I thought Terrans where impossible to beat. I finally beat them and since that day, there is nothing overpowered for me. I just need to find a way to overcome that obstacle instead of saying its overpowered meh! Or in other games, where I found something hard I didn't came to the conclusion it was overpowered, instead I tried and thought of different startegy and ways to play against it.

    I will give another very nice example from my game called RomeTotalWar. I was having a hard time beating rome with macedon. All I did is play rome vs macedon until I found a good way to play that match-up and now I won my last 3 Macedon vs Rome games while before I couldn't win any.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  14. Anarticpulse

    Anarticpulse Guest

    Like I'd said I only have the game on pre-orderand haven't had the pleasure of playing it yet. I was looking for some opinions on the matter. How hard is it to beat terran in high level play?
     
  15. grapedog

    grapedog New Member

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    The MM+ghost ball is the hardest for Protoss to beat from my experience playing, reading and watching replays. For every counter Protoss employ, Terrans have a more effective counter. I think if EMP had to be researched, that might help a little bit. I'm not currently sure why it doesn't have to be researched.

    HT storms work well, but require a building, research, and the amulet upgrade if you want to bring HT's in the battle as soon as they warp in, and they can get one off. Though a well macro'd MM ball can avoid that too. If you can get your sentries FF down, block a retreat, split the forces, then psi storm what you have trapped. You can probably make a sizeable dent with your other units. Problem I see is, you're needing sentries, front line fighters(zealots), immortals, stalkers, HT's+ research, and maybe a few colossus(and if they have Vikings, you'll need throw away phoenix's, unless they land the vikings which you could then anti-grav possibly. That's a lot of micro, compared to the Terran just having to run attack, run attack, run attack... with the occasional EMP blast and medi-vacs following the army auto-healing.
     
  16. Caiaphas

    Caiaphas New Member

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    First, the High Templar. A High Templar costs 50 minerals and 150 gas. A Templar Archives costs 150 minerals and 200 gas. And the psionic storm costs 150, 150. Total: 350 minerals, 500 gas.

    A Ghost costs 150 minerals and 150 gas. A Ghost Academy costs 150 minerals and 50 gas. A Tech Lab costs 50 minerals and 25 gas. Total: 350 minerals, 225 gas.

    Now it looks as if the High Templar obviously wins here, however one ghost isn't going to do much damage. As you begin to get a group of ghosts and a group of high templars (in fact once the Terran player gets four ghosts and the Protoss player gets four High Templars), the ghosts start to cost more. I'm not including the upgrade because Ghosts need an upgrade to use EMP right when they are spawned as well.

    As for the second bit about how you have to micro more than the Terran player in order to beat them, well that's the point. You are supposed to micro more than your opponent to win. And it really isn't as complicated as you said it was. Chargelots, Stalkers, and Colossi should be able to win against this. And you can throw in some Sentries for that ranged shield. The chargelots allow the Colossi to abuse their range and do splash damage on the line of MM+Ghosts. Use the stalkers to focus down the couple of ghosts he may have. Honestly, chargelots are something I hate seeing in a TvP game, because even later on they make my siege tanks damage my own units with splash damage.. They are incredibly useful.

    EDIT: Oh right, and they get Vikings? Well they managed to pump out some other units, so you should be able to as well. Either get Phoenixes, or just get some more stalkers to counter the Vikings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2010
  17. Mako

    Mako New Member

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    Terran is not OP at all. If anything I would say that Void Rays are OP.
     
  18. hertaru

    hertaru Member

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    Try all the races out your not limted to one race!
     
  19. Mako

    Mako New Member

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    I have and thats why I can say Void Rays are OP and Terran are not.
     
  20. grapedog

    grapedog New Member

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    That's part of the bonus of being a Protoss is having to do more work than a Terran player to achieve similar results? You make it sound like having to micro twice as much as a terran MM ball is perfectly ok for people who play Protoss. What are your two specials, EMP and Stimpack? Versus FF, PS, GS(meaning my sentry of 40/40(HP/S) gets to sit in the front of the battle and picked off while ghosts can EMP from the back)?

    Charge = requires research at it's own separate building, Colossus = requires two buildings and research for range. So, on top of gateways and a cybernetic core for Stalkers and Zealots, that totals 5 different buildings and three research(for warp gates). That's if I only build 1 gateway, which what Protoss builds only 1 gateway... Of course, my gateways don't produce any Colossus, so they get to be hand made from the 1 robotics facility i have. These three researches totals 450/450...

    Meanwhile, as a terran, you need barracks, ghost academy and a starport(if you want medi-vacs), with realistically two attachments(i'll grant you the reactor even though it's not necessary to make the units). Those attachments can be swapped between your different buildings to produce even more units/upgrades. You don't have to research any abilities, though Stim Pack and Concussive Shot are both very nice. Your two research is a grand total of 150/150 since EMP is free, for some reason, and has a bonus of detecting hidden units, for free.

    Of course, none of the above brings in HT's yet, which require an additional building, along with two more research to cast Psi Storm with the starting energy boost as spawn. Another 350/350 research...

    Yeah, that seems even...

    Vikings are produced at your starport, which you already have if you have medi-vacs. Phoenix require another building. After that cost though, they are roughly reasonably equal. Though I would rather have the vikings damage and range, twice the phoenix, and trade tanking factor, which Phoenix can take double the damage.