Racisim in WoW, the internet, ect...

I'm presently an officer in a large wow guild. It's a simple lvling guild, we really couldn't pull together a solid group for 10man naxx. That's the easiest raid in WotLK; I'm really well above that. I'm currently an officer in this guild because I do have raid experience (I can lead a 10man no prob....and again that would be an accomplishment for this guild not not for me), the GM recognizes me as a friendly person, I'll hop on my lvl 80 lock that I never play anymore if it helps a guildie (my current main is a 54 mage).

I was playing when in guild chat one of our members mentioned he lives in Mexico and is Mexican. Immediately, another guildie (from this point I'll refer to him as Mr. Y) said he hates Mexicans. I know Mr. Y fairly well from playing with him, I know he is a clown like myself. I can appreciate insensitive jokes...if you don't blatantly use them to hurt others. Jokes are for being silly.

Mr. Y was not kidding. He went on and on with racist bull**** even though myself and 2 other officers told him to stfu. I even said, "If you just don't like Mexican people for any reason; ok. But do not speak of this in gchat. Can't change you, but it is not welcome."

Not enough for him. He kept it up. I told my Mexican guildie that if he is offended; not to fight back. There was plenty of evidence for our GM to boot him. I eventually demoted Mr. Y to the lowest possible rank and warned him I can and will gkick if he does not leave his intolerance to himself. After about 2 mins he replied with a simple "lol". I would of kicked his *** right then and there if I did not respect my GM.

He has been openly racist, degrading, and out right offensive against another guildie. He also disrespected 3 officers by not shutting his mouth on the topic when asked...latter told to. Although, I find his gkick to be absolutely deserving....I feel bad.

It was absolute aggressive/unfounded racism he spewed, which I am against, but I also am aware he is a dumb 15 year old kid from Australia. This kid has admitted that he's never met a Mexican...but refused to believe his opinion may be (and seriously is) incorrect; he needs experience with a group of people before casting judgement. He was more pleased with calling all Mexicans dirty and Mexico the world's unkempt asshole than saying sorry. BTW he was far less articulate than that...15 year olds; ****...and I'm only 23.

I play the game for fun. Very rarely, I get have a chance to learn from or enlighten other players. I feel like I failed with this anti-Mexican kid. To admit, I grew up in a very lily-white neighborhood and was fairly racist until I hit college and actually met the people I had once considered to be less than human. Maybe I should of been more patient before demoting him and recommending a gkick from my GM? Or maybe I should of just gkicked him myself...he was all for attacking another guildie which I damn well know is a decent, caring, humanbieng.

Do you guys think I did the right thing?

And what sort of racism have you seen on the internet? It seems much easier to be an anonymous KKK member on the net than some anonymous **** parading on the street who has to put on a mask to avoid getting his *** beat rather than just logging off.

 

You did the right thing. If the game matters a lot to him then he'll learn some manners. If it doesn't and he'll just go along saying the same things then you managed to reduce the amount of insults the Mexican got. So whatever the case may be it was the right thing.

That said I'm biased against children on the internet. If they go around saying racist or otherwise improper things they deserve to get the maximum "punishment" they can get. Why? Because otherwise they'll become arrogant bastards who think they can get away with anything, expanding to real life as well. I never will be in support of letting children use the internet without limitations because it clearly contributes to the stock of douchebags out there and I do think it is partly responsible for making the following generations so insensitive and immoral. Not only that but it makes using the internet an extremely bad experience for others, especially who are more sensitive to such things.

 

Well if you really feel that way kuvasz. There is currently a group of people pushing the Eserb to rate multiplayer communities like they do games. If it works and they do start giving ratings and parents see how bad this atmosphere is for young children. Then it should help.

As for racism on the internet. Often its not someones real life opinion its just the one they think they can get away with. Honestly, I tend to ignore and report people for this. You did the right thing by kicking this kid, but not for the sake of teaching him a lesson but to keep the victim from being targeted further. On a side note if the officers all agree that the kid deserved the kick then the GM won't have a problem. Because hes not going to remove all of his officers over one inexperienced 15 year old. If he does then its his loss.

 

I was once called a shemale a looong time a go in runescape for wearing a skirt.

 

I have a small question, i might have just missed it in your story, but where did you conclude that "mr. Y." is a fifteen year old? was it something you knew beforehand, or something you concluded out of his behavior?

Somehow i get the feeling that Kuvasz is including me in this statement .

i am a warlock in WOW, for us clothwearers, dresses are all we can choose from. Which leads to a lot of hilarity.

 

I can see why you'd think that but (at least for once ) I didn't mean it for you... I can't imagine you being arrogant, only a little silly, sexually perverted, and some other stuff. It was triggered by a *** on another site.

@Jshep: I didn't know about that, but I'd welcome it alright.

 

I honestly can't care less for some stupid kid being a racist on the internet. He'll get his but kicked soon enough in real life. That's a better punishment for being a racist then being kicked from some online game. Just my two cents.

 

You did the right choice.
This player is 15, he is very young. I myself said a lot of very bad things in my life and now I meet the people I insulted and I don't care about them. WORSE about me : I insulted them by joke, and afterwards my joking thoughts became more and more true. I believed on my false insults ! I don't even judge them anymore. I just live my life. This young guy has to get more mature. Don't judge him badly. He has to move away from his computer. He has to change the air. He has to get REAL friends, not players in the web.

You banned him ? You must make him understand that you punish him for his insults and his aggression, not for his racism. Else he will believe that you are a pro-Mexican. You know what ? I think he will change with time. But if nothing is done he can get associed with neo-nazis groups. Once he will meet real Mexicans he will change his mind. He will maybe even have a Mexican friend. We are all humans. We are stupid first and then we change. But of course there are people who will never change because from their childhood to their adult age they lived in a racist area. I am thinking about the KKK people.

Hate leads to nothing ..... The haters are most of the time marginal persons. Who are not loved in their neighborhood and want to attract the attention on them. So they become racist. That's just one example to escape their lonelyness.

 

I fail to see what the big deal is. Moron acts in improper way even after recieving warning and he got booted. The only thing you could object to is why the hell did it take you so long to kick him in the first place.

 

He wanted to be gentle with him, to explain to him that he was wrong.
I am sure all that was just a joke and a game for the kid at the beginning and that it became more and more real.

 

TBH anywhere were I get a say on what people are allowed my rules are simple in a case like this. You get a warning if you ignore it, you leave (voluntairly or not).

 

That's the best way to do.
But for a kid it is different from an adult.
You know I read the newspaper a month ago on which there was an article which explained that a teenager (13 years old) got ejected from school because he made the nazi salutation. "Just to joke" as he said. Well the director of the school, because of some exterior pressures, decided to fire the kid. Of course they expleined to him not to joke about what he did and said too. But nothing to do. He got out !
I am thinking at the place of the kid : I would wonder that the punishment was too exagerated. I am a kid. I had no idea of the importance of my joke.
Same punishment for a kid as for an adult.

Don't punish people without explaining WHY what they did was bad. Don't say "you are fired because you said that. That's the rule." But explain why it was bad.

 

There is a difference between real life and online though. Online you can't know for sure how old anybody involved is, so it tends to be better to treat everyone the same. I migine a lot of "kids" hang out online because they want to be treated like an adult, most of the time that's fine by me (hopfully they act like one, if they want to stick around).

In real life, especially in a place that is primarily "kids" (like a school) the rules should be different, with a focus on teaching. But that's the topic of a different disscusion.

 

I do not view this as a child vs an adult issue.

 

As an Officer of my guild, completely agree with kicking him. We pretty much run a 1-strike policy in mine. Basically, if you insult someone due to their ethnicity, sexual preference, etc, you get one warning. After that, you're gkick'ed and blacklisted.

As far as prejudice on el intertubes, I find it obscenely ridiculous. The biggest one I find is not a matter of race, but of orientation. Ever play Halo online? You know exactly what I mean. There's a fine line between free speech and being a ****.

 

@iffy

He said he was 15 himself, it was not something I myself decided upon. That'd be pretty hiporcriticle steriotyping all 15 years olds like that. I'm aware how old you are, and the closest thing to a negative I would have to say about you is you're a goofball.

My main is a lock and my alt is a mage...I would love a magic shirt someday. Why must it all be robes? You can't see your epic pants and if you put on a tabard it looks like a wife-beater.

@Higgs

The reason he didn't get kicked immediately is because he was a dumb little kid. Even adults will on ocassioun run their mouths like jackoffs (does everyone see what I'm doing here btw?). The important thing is if the learn something from it and thus change their behavior. If I was to simply gkick him, then he'd probably become more of a little **** emo crybaby. I wouldn't have to deal with him anymore, but someone would.
Or that was my hypothesis at the time.

 

Alright here's my two cents on this bit. The GM is the leader of this guild thingie right? I don't play WoW so idk, but I'm going to assume that cause of what is said in the thread. I wanna say GM means guild master. That assumed...

You're an officer, you've been given authority by authority. Not to use it, even in the presence of the highest authority is somewhat disrespectful in my eyes. You are trusted to withhold certain rules and enforce them, that's why you were given said job, or at least part of the reason. You're trusted to make these decisions. So man up a little and use your authority as best and as fairly as you can. It's your duty to your guild.

If you don't do what you need to do, then you're not fit to do your job. It should be given to someone who will use their authority to do what is needed. It's like a cop that watches ppl do **** when the chief is there, and is unsure if he'll disrespect his boss if he acts when he isn't there. We can't have cops like that. Could you imagine? Same concept.

 

True Dark, but it's still a young clan and there really aren't any rules.
The racist BS just seemed like something that should be agaisnt the rules if the existed, and **** for all I know the GM hates Mexicans too.
Also please take into account that I didn't just sit there and let it happen. I just didn't full on kick him, I can't say just how many strikes my GM (yes, guild master) allows for what sort of offense.

 

Then as officer, take intitative and write some, then clear them with the GM.

So what if he hates Mexicans too? Ok back to the cop thing. If the chief loves rapists, and doesn't care that it happens (fat chance in hell but bear with me), then should every cop under him just turn a blind eye to rape? I don't think so. Just read rule 11 here at this site and you'll see what I mean.

If you don't know, then ban him temp and talk to the GM, then either let him back or keep him gone according to what the GM says. Don't allow this bigot to cause a din within your clan just because you're not sure of what to do with him. Get rid of the problem before it gets worse, then figure out what to do from there.

 

Dark it should be pointed that it is possible (depending on how the guild is set up) to prevent someone from speaking in guild chat without kicking them (similar to a perma ban here). It's also possible for individuals to put some on a personal ignore. I think in a situation were what should be done is amiguous (whether this is one of situations really depeneds on the guilds attitude in general) the least severe method that deals with the problem should be the one chosen. In this case the were ways to prevent the racist from speaking to the victim without kicking the racist. Finally, if the victim was extremely offended he could have just reported the racist to a GM and had the racist temp banned from Wow.