Religion

An Omnipotent God is a Logical Impossibility

A lot of religious people claim that their god is omnipotent (all-powerful), this however leads to a lot of problems, which have been pointed out by numerous people. One of these problems is the consequences of the simple but a bit naïve question: “Can God create a rock that he can’t lift?” If God can’t do this, then he isn’t omnipotent, and if he can, then he still isn’t omnipotent, because then there is something, that he can’t do – i.e. lift the rock.

This means that omnipotence is a logical impossibility, and therefore omnipotent gods are also logically impossible.

Omniscience is Incompatible with Free Will

Some Gods are also supposed to be omniscient (all-knowing), and humans supposedly have a free will. But how can humans have a free will, if a god in advance knows what is going to happen? There can be no choice in any meaningful sense of the word, if there is only one possible outcome to each and every situation (that is the outcome that the god has foreseen).

This leads us to conclude that free will combined with omniscience is impossible, and if we want to keep omniscience and thereby have to kill off free will, what does that do to the concept of sin?

 

Please, no more religion threads, they tend to have problems. Religion is based off faith, not facts, since a God can do things outside of scientific reality.

I'm Roman Catholic btw, but I don't think the Bible should be taken literally. An example, earth made in 6 days v. evolution theory; just because the Bible said he made it in 6 days does not specifically say it is in HUMAN days. For all we know, a day for God could be Millions of years in human terms.

 

One cannot apply such mortal concepts to a god. The rock theory is a huge fallacy. Physical concepts do not even BEGIN to apply to a god.

Free Will can exist with omniscience. Gods don't see THE outcome, they see ALL the outcomes. Mortal concepts do not apply.


Now, keep it nice or I'm closing the thread.

 

aha, got me there... i suppose? but wtf good to keep an open mind to these sorta things...

 

Says who?

 

Babmer I strongly advise you to DROP IT RIGHT NOW!
Do you reliase what are you doing right now?
You are applying logic on religion. Jeez. I hope that you live far away from me cause I am not looking forward to a nuclear explosion melting my face.


Now seriously. Logic doesnt go togever with faith/religion. You may argue that some abstract logic does, you might be right, but I dont thing truly religios people cared about this type of paradoxes and religion is something which is supposed to get you away from this crude, logical world of materalism. I might aswell argue that god is omnipotent and therefore things like logic play no role in his... holiness?

 

Please drop this. I don't believe in god. However, people close to me do, I don't want to see them get hurt or pissed at this thread.

Besides, you can't mindf*ck someone into believing something else. It's an ass thing to do. It's hard to sway true believers anyway. So don't waste your time.

 

Thats a good point darkone. Babmer what was your objective in informing us of this?

 

Thank you zergy.

There is one specific person I am thinking of, and if you hurt her, I will bleed you dry.

 

This forum should stay friendly. This topic may be what it is, but threats should never be used.

 

If I may express my opinion - as you read, I dont think that Babmer made a smart move, but I also dont support overprotectivness. I think people have to learn to take hits and retaliate, possibly themselves. So darkone if youre starting a war on Babmer, I am sorry but Ill have to stand on the other side of no mans land.

 

I dunno tbh. Logic seems to play such a large part in the universe. To say that it doesnt correspond with God or Religion just seems silly, as surely from a Omnipotent POV; logic is something of 'God's' doing? But ROFL. im just speculating.. and have probobly contradicted myself multiple times . But logic isnt the only problem religion faces:

Why is it that If i was to claim that every 1 minute i sprout zerg like tentacles and gain the power to summon.. erh.. peons, that everyone would call me insane? but if someone claims that the bread they are eating and the wine they are drinking are turning into the flesh and blood of a guy born of a virgin, who is his own father, and who rose from the dead 2000 years ago, then he’s called a Catholic and should be respected for his faith? where would my respect be?

i mean hell im just shooting ideas here, and i have respect for whatever religion people choose to be (as long as it isnt forced or harms others... crusades anyone?) but mrhm.. all i can see is flaws and as you said. a means to escape reality.


HEY, HEY! rofl my aim was just to see what your peoples opinion on this sorta stuff i said was.. No need to close no thread or anything, im certainly not gonna go into some kinda flame war over the subject

 

Gmg, you know I use them all the time.

I am not trying to make an enemy or be unfriendly, I am just trying to protect those whom I love, thats all.

 

Babmer: And thats EXACTLY why I am not religious person. At least not mainstream religion. Think of religion vs science as general relativity vs quantum mechanics.
I dont think that this discussion has future. I am sorry but it seriously does not. People will either bash their heads against the wall proving the other group that they are illogical fanatics and the other group claiming that youre an idiot beacause you dont understand the point of religion and god.

 

This was not my goal.. and how will me posting about this hurt people you 'know?' Can religion not be discussed without people getting 'hurt'? i tried to keep things as open minded as possible! :s

 

Talking about religion in general is rude.

 

Threatening and arguing are two different things. If you argue against him to protect her, thats all good and well, if you just throw dirt into people faces everytime they say something unsatisfactory then its a big nono.


edit:

Now its getting interesting! Please extrapolate on your statement will you?

 

rofl . that put a smile on my face, ty .

(im not being sarcastic)

Comawn lets try to discuss this without a flame war now people

 

When ppl say this is that way or that is this way, and you don't see it that way. It is rude. Telling someone they are wrong when they believe so deeply they are right. Is rude.

 

Mhm, I agree that you shouldnt be such a fanatic/extremist about your statements. But aslong as you have meaningful to support your ideas nothing stops you from claiming that youre right. And you will be right until someone breaks your arguments with arguments of their own.