Starcraft 2 Replays / Matches Discussion Thread

Infinitely is the word. I had complained about that fixed BR games since episode 2!!!.
I wish we had all those G-star games to a BR's quality.

In other news, the game still seems(at least to my eyes) a litle unbalanced...
I was mad that in the BRs a Zerg never won but even now I haven't find a single game won by zerg..

At least I hope to, cause there are a couple of zerg games left to check..

 

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12288&page=2

What are you doing?

 

HAHA same person too

We should call these "Forgettor-post"

 

Oh, Aurora requested that we shound't discuss the matches in the pre-mentioned thread..
Only the links. So chill out and speak your worries

 

I actually find this the first usefull post of Ronin I have seen him make over the past few days. Not a bad idea.

 

Guyzz I am really w8ing to open a discussion about the games. And special for me, I want zerg to analyze...

Update: Another loss for the zerg in PvZ

 

The other topic is made by Aurora.

Why do you always respond to friendly posts as if I cussed you out? Why would you tell me to chill out? I was beyond chill.

 

you acted like I was blind and didn't knew a thread that I had writen in it. anyway I have a slight felling that you r always on a flame hunt.

You haven't bothered to share your opinions for a single match...

 

I think ronin2011 made a point there DeckardLee, but for such trivial matters can't we just get along?

Anyways, I guess BRs are just fixated on giving the viewers an idea of what they currently have on that build and besides, we all knew long time ago that the BRs are created months ahead of the time it was released, so it makes sense that these casual matches would be much updated and be more dynamic.

I thought that the zerg player was man handled by the terran there, considering how far the zerg have gotten to the tech tree, he just doesn't understand yet the proper mixture of what a zerg force should be like. His attempts with the broodlord was nice and the corruptor was menacing but he just didn't manage to win the micro game there. Infestors wouldn't change the game as much as what defilers can do, but I'm not quite sure if neuro-parasiting a caster unit would also grant the zerg player its abilities, if so... I guess infestors are in good shape. The zerg player should have NP'ed those Ravens and set off those seeker missiles against their own.

 

For the sake of positive communication, I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop always assuming I'm out to get you. It makes it extremely difficult to get conversation going for more than a few posts without it getting derailed. That's why I often just ignore your comments even though I could write extensively on it, hence, why I have not replied yet.

Since it's early in the morning, I'm not going to comment on the matches yet but I will as soon as I am fully awake. I would be thankful if, when I reply, you don't react so harshly to whatever it is I say so that we can get past this and actually discuss this game in a healthy way.

 

Oh My Lord!!!! The zerg actually have a win!!! I am going to cry!!!!!!! 3-4 expos to win 1 terran natural..!
Update: 2 wins for the zerg.. both against terrans!

 

I just finished rewatching two of the matches and have commented on them. I'm not done commenting on the rest but, for now, I'm going to post what I have given that I'm already getting close to the maximum characters per post.

The Zerg are probably my most fun race to play in the original and with things like the Queen Spawn Larvae and Roach micro I think they'll be even more fun since my hands will always be busy. Therefore, it's good to see that they aren't the whimps they're made out to be in Battle Reports and other previous games.

Also, what game is it that you're talking about?


-- It's good to see the Protoss have an effective relatively low cost air unit for attacking and harassment. The Void Ray seems to be a lot more effective than the Scout was so I think we'll be seeing the Void Ray used a lot more than the Scout. Granted, that's not saying much since the Scout's are almost never used but still it's good to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLzYoaIyBnI

- It seems the Terran can completely block just about any ramp now. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. On one hand, it'll give the Terran time and there's plenty of abilities like Graviton Beam to counter this but, on the other hand, I don't want it to always be that the Terran blocks every time in every game on every map.

- Now that Scan comes directly from the upgraded Command Center (Orbital Command) instead of the Comsat, I wonder how that will effect cloaked unit harassment. In the oiringal, you would often times want to take out the Comsat before you started attacking the miners or whatever else but now it seems that you'll have to do as much damage as you can before the user scans. It seems to always be a lot easier for the user to combat cloaked units because the scanner is not as vulnerable.

- Man I love medevac dropships. They're one of my favorite new units. I can't wait to use them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggg1SK8SPuU

- I'm a bit curious as to why the Zerg play ran his drones away from just one zealot. In StarCraft, if I was being attacked at a natural with one zealot, I would just micro each attacked drone away instead of immediately hiding them all.

- Man, the Queen is slow as hell off creep. I don't think we'll be seeing much offense fro this unit with a walking speed like that. Sure, you can Overlord transport them but I'm not sure they'd be worth the effort. They seem to be only effective at base maintenance and defense. Still, I'm glad they've changed it from being a hero like unit to a normal specialized unit.

- It's also good to see Nullifiers be more effective than simple spellcasters. They do a decent job of killing small units like Zerglings and Drones. I was worried it would be another High Templar that is a useless once you use all of its spells. I wanted to preserve the uniqueness of the unit.

- LOL @ Protss player Force Fielding the Zerg out of his expansion while he annihilates it. I'm going to love doing that when I get my hands on this game

Overall Notes:

- I love how fast and smooth everything moves. Everything is so fluid and efficient.They may have removed tons of micro enhancing features but I think they've more than made up for that with the game's speed and unit roles. StarCraft 2 looks to be a better balance, for me, in terms of speed, strategy, micro, and macro. From watching the Battle Reports, I had feared that the game would be a bit more boring to watch and play but these matches have reinvigorated my love for watching the videos. It's a shame the Battle Reports had the opposite of the intended effect on me. I guess Batte Reports truly are designed for the beginner watcher and the unofficial matches such as this are meant for the more experienced watcher. I can't wait until beta when we'll be able to get more matches like this.

- it also seems like the units moved a bit more realistically in these matches. In the Battle Reports, the masses of units would follow a perfect line when moving and then blob up into perfect spheres when they reach their mark. In these games, they seem to be form up a little more naturally in a few cases. I wonder what's changed?

- Hydralisks looks badass and are quite the speedy little devils. I'm glad to see they're back in they're normal tier. I didn't want them to turn into the Terran equivalent of a Goliath. I liked them as they were as a low tier back bone of the Zerg army. Now, they're so fast. I love it. I don't know how effective Psi Storms are going to be now given fast they are compared to the original. I mean, they did decent damage in one of the videos, but in the original Psi Storms could really kick some *** against Hydralisks and I'm not sure if I've seen that in StarCraft 2 yet.

- Buildings still look a bit flat and bad when zoomed in at different angles. I wish they would fix this.

 

I don't really feel like making a text wall now, so just a few comments to add to what Deckard said.

Beginning with the Psi Storm: it still looks really effective in my opinion. However, it seems to be a lot harder to use it on small units this time around. The improved pathing of each unit in Starcraft 2 makes maneuvering around the Storms a lot less difficult then it was in the original. I mean, just look at those Zerglings, especially with upgraded speed. It's like they're on ice skates or something. So smooth. The increased unit selection capacity only increases their chances.

So all in all, I'm not really sure why the size of a Storm is decreased now. It only seems to be really effective against slow and large units now, such as the Thor, which we've seen going down against a few High Temples multiple times now. But hey, I'm a Zerg player. You won't hear me complain.

Onto the Terran ramp block, er, thing. I just don't think it's that easy. Not that many maps have only ramps, those are more for beginners. Looking at, for example, the battle reports, we've seen that there are plenty of bases which are easy to access. The Terrans can still block it with buildings, but a big attack on those will make them lose lots of supply. And the last thing you want is to use supply points when your base is under attack. Further, cliff climbing units can overcome this pretty easily. The Zerg don't have any, but I think that a combination of Roaches and Banelings should be able to overcome any regular defense pretty easily if there isn't an entire army defending it.

Besides, there's always the destructable rocks which every race can take an advantage from.

 

First Win for Zerg, many more expos than the terrans for a (not that easy) victory..

Second game won by zerg, awfull play by terrans with alot of BCs showing for first time revamped Matrix and Missile Barrage(also seen in ESL Final 2008)

 

@Aurora: I know there's ways around the Terran block but not so much in the beginning in the starting bases for most maps. Almost all of the maps we've seen so far have ramps in your starting base. That's the Korean way of gaming, I know, but if every map is like that it'll be boring. I know it won't be but it seems like a lot of them will. I'd rather have the decision have advantages and disadvanteges but it's hard to judge this too much without having played it and not considering this more. What I mean is that it's almost always a no brainer to block now. I could see that getting a bit old even if more maps don't have ramps in your starting base. In the original, even in maps where Terrans can do a complete block it was not always a no brainer. Still, the destructible rocks counter this a bit and that's one thing I forgot to take into consideration. It was early I blame it on that

Psi Storm: From the videos I've seen, when the Protoss player lays down, say, two psi storms, only 5-10 Hydralisks would be killed out of 30 or so because of how fast they are. In the original, tons of Hydralisks would die or be very weakened. However, this makes sense to me now that I think about it in more depth because there's one thing I forgot to take into consideration and that's how much easier Psi storms are to use now. Since Psi Storms are smart castable, they probably had to be weakened for balance reasons. Still, I don't see how Psi Storms are going to be as effective against Zerg without Force Field especially on Zerg creep. This actually works out well because it will require the Protoss player to be more skilled and to use Force Field in conjunction with Psi Storm. If this goes as I have said, then the Psi Storm/Force Field combo will be a great way for gamers to show their skill and to micro for maximum effectiveness. Upon rethinking this, I like the new direction.

 

I also believe that. And I believe that they must weaken them even more..!

 

I agree and I should've thought about it more. I just wanted to get some discussion going and, at the moment, commenting felt a bit forced for me. Anyways, I'm in the process of rewatching and commenting on the other games.

Stay tuned! I know you all are going to anticipate my response with bated breath

 

of course we are! but don't take too long!We may have respiratory problems!

 

The Zerg have lost because the other races are too powerful. A group of marines and marauders just eradicate the group of zerglings and banelings because those last ones can't reach the Terrans without being killed. Maybe if those zergs had more life ... or a better armor (carapace), but I doubt on this one.

 

Well, that's what Marauders are supposed to do. Slow units down. But Zerglings (Speedlings) are still the best counter when you swarm the enemy properly. Marauders can't stop them all individually. Further, Marauders do bonus damage against armour, so using a Roach force is an even worse choice. :/

@Deckardlee
*cough* not that much *cough*

But seriously. The use of Psi Storm has always been way to easy in my opinion. Just cast it and watch those units burn. Cheap.

Also, I've come up with some stuff to counter your blockade comments. We've already seen that the Protoss can easily block a ramp or even just a bottleneck, by simply putting Force Fields between them.

It seems pretty effective. Not really sure about the Zerg yet. There are ways we've already seen, though. For example, there have been situations in which a Zerg player burrowed Banelings in a small opening, and lets them explode at the moment enemy forces step on them. It's more of a passive defence, but it's still something to consider if you don't have a lot of detection going yet. Lurkers might also be a working solution, but none of these are really as effective as the more visible Terran and Protoss methods.

But hey, the Zerg are the most offensive race anyway. They shouldn't have to rely on these methods to much. That's the good thing about this franchise. No race can utilize exactly the same tactics with equal success.