StarCraft2Forum.org StarCraft 2 Beta Feedback – 3/6/2010 Terran Suggestions 1. Thor must have GTA splash damage. Other than the Battlecruiser and the Nomad’s Heat-Seeking missile ability, the Terran have absolutely no counter to massed Mutalisks in Tier 3. Where Protoss has the Mothership to divide enemy forces with Vortex and the Phoenix in complement to that, the Terran have only 1:1 unit ratios (Viking + Battlecruiser to Mutalisk) which can easily be countered at cost by Zerg with the Corruptor. If the Thor did splash damage (as it used to) it would require the Zerg player to avoid the unit at all cost while harassing. This would give a slower, but definitive, counter for the Terran. 2. Terran infantry upgrades not require armory until level 3. By requiring the armory for infantry beyond level 1 increases the pressure on the infantry-only Terran player to tech that extra tier earlier than necessary. 3. Terran EMP needs a shield damage boost. -100 HP to shields is great against smaller units but is not effective at higher tiers as it should be (Carriers, Mothership, etc.). 4. Ghost cloak research needs reduction in cost. Gas cost is too high. Commitment of this much gas at such an early stage is effectively a gamble. This is fine so long as the nuke is more of a “cheese” tactic than a standard employment of the Terran arsenal which I believe is the goal. 5. Terran EMP needs increased range and/or pathing improvements (ghost rushes into enemy lines to fire, often hitting itself). While facing a large Protoss army, a smattering of Ghosts were unable to effectively launch EMP as the pathing and/or range for the ability was too short and thus while microing the ability, the Ghost would leave the safety of the group to run straight into enemy forces. This ability is already balanced by the Protoss’ ability to regenerate shields quickly after battle. 6. Nukes may need an increase in damage. Colossus directly in the line of fire should not survive a nuclear strike (they do with most of their HP intact and 0 shields). Very few units should survive a nuclear blast (Battlecruiser, Ultralisk, Mothership for sure, perhaps Thor and Carrier). Also, nuking the same player twice in the same area should be cause for the destruction of all buildings in that area. A Nexus should not survive three nukes… 7. Remove Raven missile interceptor ability, make Heat-Seeker a standard ability w/ high mana cost, the ability is too high on the tree to be useful at the moment (or decrease its cost and research time). This would emphasize a tier 3 splash damage strategy by Terran forces and would effectively support Siege Tanks and cause artificial targeting of the Raven. It would also be a more effective counter versus Mutalisks. 8. Terran Reaper may need to be cut. Terran has far too many infantry units and are therefore complicated to use and create counter issues. The Reaper is also effective basically only against Zealots, Zerglings and buildings. The unit has virtually no use as a support unit except perhaps to deal with static base defenses. For 50/50 this is probably not the best option. Perhaps the D-8 charge should be re-instituted as a manual ability which would allow the Reaper to be a micro-based utility unit and would also create a support opportunity for the unit. It can prevent the advance of enemy units and cut off reinforcements. Otherwise the unit is basically useless. 9. If the D-8 has been determined as imbalanced, perhaps the cliff-jumping ability should be moved to the Terran Ghost as a cool-down ability. The cool-down should be significant, almost like a one-time use. Perhaps a 30 second cooldown. This would allow for greater base penetration for the Ghost and would require better base defenses by opposing players. This would also emphasize the nuke as a quick and deadly strategy. Nukes can be launched where the unit cannot see anyway, so this is a natural step forward. This ability might require research. This would make the Terran Ghost essentially its own tech tree within the infantry and would establish the nuke as a viable offensive strategy. With this addition the nuke may not require a damage boost as stated above. Glitches 1. Thor glitch when using 250mm Cannon against air units, will not target a new unit until player issues a move command. 2. Pathing AI with supply depots raising and lowering is not intuitive. Units should proceed toward a destination until stopped by an object, not proceed on the shortest route if they perceive the route to be blocked. This error occurs when ordering units to exit a base before dropping a supply depot. Units will automatically stop unless the supply depot is lowered. This does not encourage effective micro. Units should proceed until stopped that way a player can order units to exit and then lower a depot. This will allow a player to reduce exposure to enemy melee units entering the choke with correct micro. Zerg Suggestions 1. Zerg needs a supportive ground unit at tier 2.5 (lurker tech?). Unable to effectively prevent or delay a determined Terran push during this tier. The only current method is Baneling + Hydra push which is not economically feasible versus an armored Terran. Mutalisks do not provide a significant enough harassment ability at this tier to counter this strategy. 2. Zerg Brood Lord is fine except for spawned broodlings deal too much damage + have too much HP. 3. Zerg Corruptor's infest ability should have similar requirements to the Corsair's web. Energy requirement high enough to permit only expectation of one use per battle (125 energy of a total available of 200?). 4. The Zerg Roach may need a reduction in HP and a boost of regeneration abilities. The timing with which the unit is produced can allow for a 2-roach rush to counter a Terran Marine and building wall at less than 6 minutes. Rare but significant. 5. Nydus Worm needs a downside. Either the ability needs to be nerfed slightly by requiring Creep to place the Nydus or there must be a penalty for having a Nydus destroyed as it is exiting troops. Currently a defender can destroy a Nydus only to have a second appear just out of range of any units targeting the original. This basically means that an attack is virtually unstoppable. Perhaps when a Nydus is destroyed all units inside would be destroyed (and perhaps limit the number of units inside to 16 at a time, requiring them to be loaded manually as the attack progresses, this would give it the same micro requirements as a drop but the added advantage of quick transportation). Glitches 1. Investigate unit targeting glitch vs. Carriers. Units may decide to attack interceptors prior to death of carrier. ~40% of units have experienced this glitch. However, unable to replicate in staged circumstances. May have something to do with presence of additional units. (i.e. being attacked by stalkers and Carriers simultaneously). Protoss Suggestions 1. The Stalker needs a reduction in HP (and not shields). It’s recent buff (since the BlizzCon build) has made it far too effective against Siege Tanks. A small group of 6-12 Stalkers can easily withstand sieged tanks and Terran infantry for a prolonged period. With the combination of Warp-In this makes it unfeasible for Terran to directly assault Protoss who do not commit to Zealots. An increased gas cost might also be feasible. 2. Chronos Boost is still resulting in much earlier teching than feasible for other races at higher levels of play. Especially with a fast expanding Protoss (supported by Photon Cannons and Stalkers and/or an ally) a Protoss can utilize the extra expansion to effectively produce Colossus well before an effective counter can be produced either by Zerg or Terran even when scouts have located the tech and they’re preparing correctly. The timing is just off. I would suggest Chronos be further reduced by increasing its energy requirement to 40. However, the timing this ability creates with Charge is perfect. Perhaps players should be punished for not utilizing this ability rather than rewarded by extending research times on specific abilities and/or units. I.E. Colossus. 3. Protoss Sentry needs a boost on its Guardian Shield to reduce incoming attacks by 50% instead of 2 to increase the need for focus fire on this unit. Duration should be adjusted accordingly for balance. The energy requirement for this ability should also be raised to create a tactical choice between Guardian Shield and Force Field. The utilization of both of these abilities concurrently is imbalanced at an early tier. 4. Immortal is fine. Don’t move him or change his abilities. 5. Protoss Carrier should not be given any interceptors upon its build. It should be required to build all Interceptors after it is built. Also, consider allowing only two extra interceptors with the upgrade. The increased range of the Carrier makes up for this challenge. By reducing the number of interceptors the attack capability of the unit is reduced and effective movement of the unit is then required.
T/3 In all the footages I've seen EMP being used it gave the impression of an overpowered Protoss killer ability. I will specifically mention this one because EMP is often used and even discussed at the end of part 3. It is a good watch and read and is primarily the reason I disagree with your suggestion. T/8 and T/9 Agreed that the reaper needs a revamp especially concerning D-8 charges but giving jump packs to ghosts would not make any sense. The jump pack, compared to the suit of a ghost, is a primitve and heavy gadget which doesn't fit the profile of the ghost. How exactly would it be able to fill in the stealth sniper role with a blazing pack on its back? Z/5 I've seen what you refer to in footages and I partly agree, although the unit cap or the loss of loaded units upon death would make the worm too much of a regular transport unit. The creep requirement should be enough to balance it out, seeing as how to drop you'd need to upgrade overlord speed and risk losing supplies while the creep is spreading. P/2 I can see that working, although the "penalty" for not using the boost sounds unfair. Perhaps make the speed increase diminish as hier tech is targeted? For example 50% for tier 1 things, 40% for tier 2, 30% for tier 3. P/4 Again I can only judge by the footages I've seen which seem to support immortals being underpowered. They should either get reduced costs or increased shields, as currently the hardened shields only repel 10 attacks and leave the twice as big hit point pool vulnerable, effectively making them a threat in only the first few seconds of a battle, especially owing to the lagging shield regeneration. I'd settle with 150/200 because the whole point of the unit is its shields. Currently it's as if the high templar had 100 energy :wacko:
T1. I agree but the splash damage radius should be small. As in my opinion it should only be there to counter mutualisks that are really tightly grouped. if the Zerg player wants to to have them really spaced apart that should be a good offensive strategy and just not simply nerfed by a massive AOE attack with the Terran here. T2. This is how it was in SC1. Only the first was not requiring of more tech. But level 2 and 3 required tech. And I think it should be the same in SC 2. So I disagree with the original poster here. Sure I think the tech required for level 2 and level 3 should be different but it should still exist. As having no tech requirement till level 3 gives the terranes that little boost I think is a little OP'd. T3. EMP should remove all shields as an AOE attack. But it's raduis should be really small. Otherwise it's like why bother using the EMP. No one would use it on a zealot. And a simple -100 on a carrier is like why? A few extra attacking units can drain that 100 shields in seconds. So for me I agree EMP needs a buff. T4. I agree. But when you improve the Nuke to make it actually useful then you have to bring back a higher gas cost for the cloak to make it all balanced. T5. Agreed. But the more range you give it, the less area of effect it needs to have. To make it balanced. Otherwise you could let off the EMP with no risk to the unit creating the EMP. There needs to be an element of risk when using an ability that has the potential when properly balanced to be very powerful. T6. I agree. Make the nukes much much much more powerful then they already are. But also make their cooldown/cost much higher. I'm much rather see it as an once in a blue moon base destroyer then a every few minutes mosquito bite. T7. I agree. Making Terran T3 all about AOE is a nice idea. T8. You make the reaper sound like the vulture of SC 1. A unit with a lot of potential but how it was in SC 1 let all that potential go to waste and the resulting vulture in game was just a poor shell of what could have been a useful unit. And I think the same is there for the reaper. The Protoss have units that can scale cliffs. And I think the Terran need them too. I agree they need a massive shake up or they will suffer the fate of the vulture. Balance them and do not remove from the game is what I think. T9. As with T8. I really like it's cliff jumping ability. I really like it. Maybe if you have the cliff jump ability and D-8 on a shared cooldown. So the people would have to choose which of it's abilities you want to use. That and a little nerve to the D-8's damage would be nice. Z1. I think this has a lot to do with player skill. A good player can make use of what is already in place to his/her advantage. There's no need to add in another unit. But what I would do is modify the mutalisk. I would make it's attack do normal damage on the first unit it hits. And when it ricochets to the 2nd enemy unit I'd have it do like more damage. And on the 2nd ricochet I'd have even more damage. Like for example. 1x/1.5x/2x or 1x/2x/3x Something like that would be really nice. Sure it's a weak unit that would die easily. And make it a target by the enemy. But on the other hand in my idea a pack of mutalisks would tear shreds into a tightly packed bunch of the enemy. And this idea would not be a research. The unit would have it from the start. Z2. I think remove a good 10hp from the unit. And maybe 1 damage from it at most. I'd want to see the unit be still relatively powerful but a thing that is killed in one shot by anything. As more of an annoyance then a tactic that can be used. Z3. I agree it's a little overpowered as it is. I think having the ability as semi-spammable as it is now is OP'd. Actually I would not mind if the ability worked as a clone of the old corsair's ability. In everything bar graphic. As a zerg ability would look different. Z4. Agreed. Having a unit as you state with rather low HP but rather fast HP restorative abilities would make it unique. And give some nice tactic options to the Zerg players. Z5. I think it should be classified as a immobile unit. And when not in use it would be burrowed and immobile.. So a cloak can detect it. And when it is in use and spewing out units it'd have to spew them out one by one and be very visible and vulnerable. But when it's finished spewing out units it'd go back to it's burrowed state. I know this makes it more like a building like the SC 1 version of the same thing. But with a burrowing ability. The other races have mobile transports. But the Zerg have immobile but instantaneous transport. P1. I disagree with you here in part. I think it's HP/shields are fine at the moment. The Potoss are supposed to have tank like units. But I think increasing it's cost or build time significantly would fix this. As in the same space of time you'd have less stalkers built to use That is the nerve I would choose to do and I would leave HP/shields alone. P2. No. Players should never be penalised for not using an ability. It should be up to the player to chose their own style of game play and not be forced to play one way to avoid a penalty. So in that respect I think your idea is not good at all. But I'd do like your upping the energy cost of it. If that was the case I'd like to see + energy cost with a + duration of ability too. I'd like to see the ability more as a rarely used super ability so you really have to choose the right moment to use it. More skill involved. Rather then a weak ability spammed overtime the player has enough energy to use it. I am all for ideas that give the power to the player the power to choose when to use something. So he/she can use it at the time they feel best. And not be forced to use it at a specific time. P3. Agreed. Give a buff to the ability. Then make the player choose which ability he/she should use. More power of choice to the player. I agree totally here. P4. I think this unit needs a buff. Well more a balance. Double the shield number and half the armour number. The whole point of this unit is the shields. So in my opinion the unto is not balanced. But a few simple fixes could remedy this. P5. Yes maybe having zero interceptors on initial build of the carrier is ok. But the rest of what you (The original poster) is saying I disagree with. I think it is fine just as it is. The unit does not need a nerf as you say. Really if you want a highly mobile arial force the carrier is not the best choice. And it's not designed for that roll. It's more designed as an arial tank to soak up the damage and have really high damage output. So your changes you want would totally change the unit. You'd have to improve the unit's speed by a lot to have your changes balanced. Only then could it be a manoeuvrable fighter.
