Western civilization dying off(?)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by cryptocancer, Feb 20, 2009.

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Western civilization dying off(?)

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by cryptocancer, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. cryptocancer

    cryptocancer Guest

    In order to sustain stable population you need to have at least 2.1 children per couple. The problem is that the USA and Europe do not match those requirements. USA balances on the pass grade of around 2 children per couple and Europe fails completely with 1.5 or less children per couple. So basically thanks to our modern life style we are ultimately doomed to become the minority. What other consequences will this have? Well thats what I want to discuss.

    My idea is that west is inevitably going to change and "regress" in some aspects. One of the aspects is the religion. It is western trend to grant religion less value or give it up altogether but as aging of population continues this trend might grind to a halt or even flip to a reverse due to immigrants from countries under increased religious sphere of influence (Ill use middle-east as a example since Islam seems to be very actual). There seems to be significant correlation between religion and number of kids probably since it encourages traditional values. So while we try our best to emancipate our women their counterparts in middle-east are brought up to give birth to as many children as possible. Now the rise of minorities will cause greater instability to the system since it will be very hard to accommodate and please so many diverse cultures under one roof and since we believe in democracy the immigrants will have bigger and bigger say in the politics as their number grows and they can incorporate part of their cultural/religious beliefs into our countries.

    Now how will it turn out? I dont know. We might get to a point of a semi-civil war between the national extremist and radical immigrants. We will be capable of accepting much more diverse society. It could strengthen us or it could drive our progression (liberalization) to a standstill as the people all pull the rope in opposite directions.
    Its important to note that the globalization also helps create this trend.
     
  2. Fenix

    Fenix Moderator

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    Interesting, but it fails to take into account the longevity of westernized nations as opposed to east bloc and third world. Here in the US, we have as much as three times the life expectancy as some less privileged nations. Some countries in Europe (Sweden, Norway) have even more. Instead of a population-driven regression, we're actually slowing down the rate of overpopulation.

    Also, since you seem keen to make Islam your poster child, I suggest you research recent events a tad more. Islamic women are becoming far more westernized in the past five years, moreso than even the men. That's not to say they're ditching their religion, far from. But instead of churning out babies like a Volkswagon with clowns, they're going to school, becoming lawyers, doctors, so on and so forth.

    As far as the instability due to immigration, I partly agree with you. However, the beauty of western culture is its ability to easily integrated multiple aspects of foreign culture into it's own. Simply look at New York, Los Angeles, San Fransisco if you don't believe me. I believe that, should immigration become that massive of a political force, we'll have little trouble accommodating it.
     
  3. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    i think it is a bad thing if a country always sustains a growth in population, as the pressure on world reserves is radically increased, for me it is even worth partial loss/enrichment (yes, i can be politically correct) of culture.

    We cant sustain this growth forever, i am not saying its an urgent problem, but i do say we shouldnt battle engrayment (i dont know the correct english word, it means increasement of the average age) as much as some countries tend to
     
  4. TiNK[E]

    TiNK[E] New Member

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    i dont quite get much of this and the hole being in the minority. Are you refferring to white people? or the countries population competing with others? cause "white supremessy" is stupid. Me being white, i do not care if white is or becomes a "minority" since where I live now and places i grew up.. I pretty much was already anyways.

    If you mean country population... who cares? Military is used as a last means and the technology we have now.. the US army is only compiled of around 400k people if im not mistaken.. making it a very small army for a world power. Besides.. the world has over population issues, so cutting back is not a problem in my eyes.

    Also.. the hole thing about religion. Religion is a false institution and I myself was a ferm believer of christianity for 21 years. Good thing I have wised up. Less religion = good. And for religious extreme's.. there time till die with religion as well.

    I dont think there are enough people in our country to start a civil war. Maybe a couple of riots.. but overall i think peace would remain with a couple shots of tear gas.

    to further note, if your worried about Immagrants influencing politics. I say more power to it, since not only was USA found on immigrants, but we influence so much outside of our borders.. why the hell not?
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2009
  5. EonMaster

    EonMaster Eeveelution Master

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    The recession of western culture has already started imo in Europe. Middle Eastern Muslims have already gained some control over politics, it's illegal in some countries to make fun of the Muslim religion in public, so the destruction of freedom of speech is already under way.

    I don't see how it would be possible for all sides to pull together, as Muslim leaders are mainly against progression unless it suites thier own religious interests. Hence why thier technology is crap compaired to the technological powers of western cultures, the US comes to mind with its power to flatten the Middle East if not given restraints (nukes anyone?). That's why some people argue that the US is not the evil that others say we are, as we had the power to turn the Middle East into a nuclear wasteland after 9/11, but didn't.

    imo, the day the Muslim culture gains complete control in democracy is the day democracy ends.

    Excuse me if I sound anti-muslim, but of all the mainstream religions, Muslim is the only one I just can't stand due to its complete disreguard for any life that doesn't believe that they believe, as well as it's horrendous disrepect for women. How many other places can you say that the beleif is that the women is at fault if someone rapes her and killed for it?
     
  6. Fenix

    Fenix Moderator

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    Just a heads up, the moment this turns into a religious debate, it's gone.

    And whoever turned in it in that direction will go on a forced vacation.


    @Eon: No offense, but you don't seem to know all that much about the Islamic culture.

    That's pretty much only the bigots. We have 'em here too.
     
  7. Light

    Light Guest

    This is a racist, islamophobic thread. Eon should be warned (or banned), and it should be locked, its definitely going to turn into a religious debate.
     
  8. cryptocancer

    cryptocancer Guest

    - We do preserve ourselves by prolonging our life span but we still age, we still dont grow. Of course thats a good thing in a sence that we move life into the area of wuality over quantity but the trend of western shrinkage will continue simply because the other parts of the world didnt reach our standarts yet and hence they still do grow large in numbers and they will take bigger and bigger portion in our society until we reach some sort of equilibrium.

    - Yes I will give you that, but it will definetly take some time before they reach anywhere near our level and until then their portion in our society will continue to grow at a decent rate.


    - No its not about the white people in the west, its about the people in the west who follow the western culture. They can be whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, arabs basically anyone.

    - No this is not the seize of the world population growth. Its only the integrated europians who stop growing in numbers, the rest of the world keeps going, thats what created the imbalance.

    - Well I dont need to see militia gunfights in the streets to be unhappy. Even "simple" riots occuring whenever someone posts his opinion in the newspaper is enough to make me unhappy.
     
  9. EonMaster

    EonMaster Eeveelution Master

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    :X

    problem with the arguement is that your compairing western vs. eastern culture, in which the eastern culture is refered to as the Muslim culture. So it's hard to talk about the eastern culture without involving the Muslim religion, as thier politics are based off of the religion.

    yes ppl in the west live longer, but that means everyone, so groups that its a tradition to have more children will increase in numbers faster. It's already prooven that whites are beginning to lose thier majority in the US to blacks and Mexicans.
     
  10. Fenix

    Fenix Moderator

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    Sadly, Light is right.


    The rampant racism apparent in these posts scares me.

    Lockban.
     
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