SC has always been a game with limited amount of unit choices. At least compared to other RTS's. Now, To make it more interesting or perhaps more strategic in what choices we make, what upgrades should further be included? By this I mean, you should mention what unit the upgrade effects, cost for upgrade, time for upgrade to finish and where it would be reasearched. Honestly, I would like there to be a crap ton of upgrade choices, if for nothing other than to make more options later in the games for tactics. Perhaps speed upgrades for slow units, maybe a +20% move speed for carriers. Things like this, anything to make games more interesting or more strategies pop up. How about 2-3 upgrades per unit? Speed? weapon range? Sensor sight? Generally people like to have many options to chose from, why can't we just have more DARN options! Balance isn't a problem if there an equal amount/similar upgrades acrossed the races. T L : DNR what upgrades do you want?
like Umm blink ultra? I'd like some options with the queen too, she's great early game but it would be cool to have a 'greater queen' morph option where she becomes more offensive.
Complexity and upgrades for the sake of upgrades = very very terribly badly awfully lame and bad you don't get more options especially since most would be cheap so you just have to learn 2-3 versions of all the units. Like Hydras being extra slow off creep is a significant factor for zerg players to take into account...maybe make all the units stronger and you get money for downgrading them ? ...but for fun in some custom map I wouldn't mind giving all units the ability to fly
Agree with Marinefreak... Upgrades for the sake of complexity have nothing good to offer. The game is already complex enough if taken to the right level and adding this type of upgrades will actually reduce the complexity we have in favour of a different type of complexity where you can just focus around 1 unit and remove it's weakness. Take hydralisks off creep, add them a good speed boost and you take away the need for zerg players to spread creep. What about adding damage to sentries? Give the unit a good dps boost and you don't have to make other units for the rest of the game as your main unit can foce field, hallucinate, guardian shield, attack land and air and have good damage. Imo the carrier upgrade is a little useless, or to be more exact, hasn't seen much use yet(if carriers were a little faster moving I guess we'd see more of it on hit and run carrier tactics), but asside from that all upgrades seem in a good place for the time being... And personally, i'd hate this kind of additional upgrades. So far you have to macro, micro, decide on what strategy to follow, make all kinds of decisions etc. Adding multiple level boosts would make the game like a tower def map: upgrade your favourite tower and win.
Doesn't starcraft have the best of all RTS allready? IMO if you change this it is not SC anymore... SC1 en SC2 are lean and mean they have over 12 years of development and experience. A mod/clone/add of some specific abbility/upgrade or any of that could be done in the custom area where there is tons of good ideas. I allready have a big problem with the patches because they really influence the gameplay to much, these where suppost to be small balance changes/bug fixes. There are probably going to be more and more changes like this in the future. Really...remember playing Beta? I'd like to see more of that! Lurkers, medics etc...
The argument about making the game less complex because one would just upgrade one unit all around is void if similar upgrades were given to all units. For example, someone mentioned hydra speed upgrade would therefore make spreading creep unneeded, however if zealots had a weapon speed increase and or a 15% non-charge movement upgrade, this would counter any speed upgrade the hydra got and therefore zerg would still need to spread creep to be effective. If upgrades are added with no counter balancing upgrade for the opposing races, then it would suck. but thats not what I am suggesting. One unit being fully upgraded wouldn't make it op, It means they have over committed to a particular strategy and a good player will still know how to properly unit mix and counter. More options means more complexity, not less, I don't see how your coming to that conclusion. Speaking of complexity I wish they had kept MOST units and MOST abilities from the betas. Would Have been wayyyy more interesting. I can understand if you just don't want the game to change for the sake of it not changing, but Im kinda bored with all the counters I know, Want more variation. If you know a map or mod with what I want I could go for that? :/
I don't know... Starcraft seems far from simple right now. We're only a few months in the game and we've seen an astounding variation in strategies and tactics. As for variation, starcraft isn't counters imo, it's how you play your strategy. Put 1 zealot with legs against 2 marines: He'll kill them: Therefore zealots with legs counter marines? Get 100 zealots with legs vs 200 marines: Barely 1/3 of the marines will die: therefore marines counter zealots with legs? There are few hard counters in the game and even these have to be played correctly and in context with the rest of your strategy to work...
The best thing about starcraft is balance (as in most Blizzard's game) It's easy to punch a whole lot of upgrades and units (ala C and C) but where does balance comes in, imagine if they put a single new units (medic infantry as in campaign) then the whole zerg / protoss would need a massive haul to counter MMM. Sometimes idea is easy, but finding the right balance is freaking and even 7 years onwards WoW can't still seems to find the good balance in PvP. Besides, normally i seldom see 3/3/3 unless it's a drag on game, most will be determined in the first 10-15 minutes (4v4) or the first 10 minutes in 1v1 you roughly know the outcome of the game basing on the micro skill of your opponent alone. Besides, take another consideration that with upgrades ad infinitum the permutations will be endless and at the end it'll just blink scissor / paper / stone and we're back to square one.
WoW is completely different as it is balanced around pve with pvp balance coming afterwards. Plus it has 10 classes of which 3 different roles that make it tough to balance. It's like balancing marines to carriers in starcraft terms.
Along with Armor, shields and weapon upgrades I wish there was a structure to upgrade weapon range and sight range. Yes, Yes I will keep dreaming.. ohhh I will.
I think that that would greatly hurt the game. Think of what the upgrade change does to the colossi and consider a similar upgrade for all ranged units. Balance would be defenestrated should something like this happen
How isn't it balanced? Every race would have similar upgrades. OH! and while we are at it, I want a structure that has two options, convert minerals into gas and gas into minerals 143 gas for 100 minerals 143 minerals for 100 gas do want.. Screw balance arguements I want more freaking options, MORE MORE MORE!!!
if all races had the same upgrade just remove them since that sounds boring. the main issue would be if i can buff one unit to move fast and atack better lets say a void ray that is all im going to make so first i turtle down then make voidrays and upgrade them to move faster and hit harder then i go kill their base i win repeat. not haveing these upgrades means you must have a diverese army with different things to compenstate for weakness in each units whereas upgrades would mean you could fix one units to have no weakness which isnt right, and whle certain game work well with lots of upgrade choices standard games of starcraft two do not ( though i do upgrades in other game like zealot frenzy were you can make lots of small choices or cities and heros from wc3)
That mineral to gas conversion is really a terrible, terrible idea. Let's suppose you're at some point left with 2k minerals and 75 gas. That means you made a mistake in your strategy and didn't get enough workers in gaysers fast enough, or didn't expand enough or didn't spend your money correctly. In all cases you played badly and need to face the consequences, not just trade off some minerals for gas and be ok with it. And as toochaos said, those upgrades would have such kinds of effects and make gameplay boring, imo....
Far less imagination then I could have imagined. Started this thread in the hope of good ideas or at least good arguements, left disapoint. thread can be closed or deleted or ignored now.
Man, it's actually imagination that helps people create a model based on an idea and say if they think it'll work or not. These changes are not good for the strategy part of the game. Could make a fun single player game, but are in no way good for either balance or the strategy element.
