American Leadership

Hehe...I like how Paragon was the only one to take in the historical stuff that I wanted to point out and we couldv'e avoided questioning later on

@ ijffdrie- The whole "inactive" gene part was a bit out of line. You don't have to like America's policies, but please do not say that the same bravery and spirit that was in American soldiers during WW2 is not within our soldiers now. I doubt this was what you were getting at, but that could've been considered an insult to our own soldiers. Please, for future reference everyone, feel free to bash on America's policies, but please do not insult its citizens or its soldiers. You guys have been great about it so far, just making sure it stays that way mkay.

@ marinefreak - yep...it's been pretty much Obama vs. Hilary news here, although John McCain is given his bit of telly as well. McCain's not the normal Republican either. He's kinda more independent. I don't think he'd do a bad job, but I strongly believe that our country needs a Democrat right now. I'm not with a particular party. I go with whatever I think our country needs atm.

 

Aside from GM_k's reason being wrong I would like to take a moment to point out that GM_k is complaining about the US considering not entering a war that had nothing to do with the US. This being in stark contrast to his earlier position that the US should not get involved in the affairs of other countries.

 

ok, i remeber reading that in social studies a few weeks away, but i don't have the energy to prove you wrong right now (and i'm probably way off...).

china's rise is not coming from individual wealth but from what the countries doing as a whole, it is now cheaper to buy ,say, a stell shielf imported from china than it is to make it yourself. (thinking for small company use) this is creating a relience on china for alot of goods.

 

i was talking about the politicians, not the soldiers, an i am not american by the way, i am dutch, although i see myself more as a modern world citizien

 

@overmind - I got my figures from the CIA World Factbook

Look at the situation today where the US is the world leader. Everyone looks at the US and expects the US to do good things. In the Cold War countries generally preferred the US to the Soviets even many under Soviet control (note how Soviet Union broke up so fast). Those that did favor the Soviets were the power hungry communist leaning dictators who desired power.

Now looking at China, they could not last as a superpower. They have massive human rights issues and there are so many independence movements in China that it would be funny if it wasn't so sad. If China became the leading superpower all the world's eyes would be on China constantly hounding them to reform. If they did this then much like the Soviet Union at its fall, these independence movements would gain momentum. China would be teetering on the edge of collapse. And I bet the US would covertly back these independence movements. See, the US doesn't want to lose its sole superpower status. I doubt there would be an arms race as full blown as the Cold War but if there was any arms race (and having the largest military is part of being the lead superpower), China would be the one that would have to close the enormous gap. And this would cost a lot of money, money that China cannot afford to spend.

 

"You can always trust the Americans. In the end they do the right thing. After they have eliminated all other possibilies." Winston Churchill

 

Yes, and the right thing in that case was entering WW2 just like the right thing for Afghanistan was to support the United Front/Northern Alliance against the Taliban. Since the US had already gone from supporting every Afghan group in the Soviet-Afghan war to supporting nobody and finally to supporting the United Front/Northern Alliance.

Funny how the right thing turns out to be war in some cases. Funny in a sad way.

 

Rofl western world countries like America and the UK don't help ****.

But yea, wheres the solid proof that Iraqi terrorists dropped a World Trade Center with a single plane. Ask your self that? Yes you saw a plane hit, but the plane its self didn't fell the building.
Its just an excuse to rally up people to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

I bet another 9/11 will happen, which justifies them to use extreme methods. Search it up lol

Also currently we are in Iraq, who are we helping? We are murdering civilians, not military figures, just civilians. If your country was getting invaded, wouldn't you pick up weapons and fight back?

War = stimulus for economy

And anyone who speaks of money now, money is just paper. Paper which they print at will, they being the bank leaders, who control with money.
Fake money nowadays means power, no money are you're dead. This can be evidenced in communities with no money.

 

For anyone that was watching the now deleted debate, it has been resolved.

 

must...not...flame...at mods...

anywho i have a friend you strongly feels that 911 was a conspiracy but i have yet to see any strong evidence although it seems to be used as an excuse for war...

the main thing that i hate about americas policies is the "unconditional surrender or war" thing, at the end of WW2 Japan was dicussing surrender. what does USA do? drop 2 nukes on civilians... personally if i was emperor i would do anything i could to get conditions on a surrender, not for myself but so the warcrimes which happen in ocupieded countries won't occure. I know that the nukes where more of a showoff to the mighty Soviet Union than anything but surely it could of been done without the deaths...

 

As for the bombs at the end of WW2, just because some people in Japan may have wanted to surrender doesn't mean that message ever got clearly accross to the U.S. Also there was/is some value in un-conditional surrender and that is the ability to effectively rebuild the country from the ground up liek what was done in Japan, which is now a leader in world markets, instead of war.

 

At the time, the bombs were probably the safest way to go. With a collective, nationalistic society such as Japan, a conditional surrender would have been a risk, as there was a chance the Japanese would rise against the US. Because of that, the safest thing to do would have been to nuke the country. It might sound harsh, but it was a lot safer for the US to break the country and build it back up their way rather than keeping it as it was.

 

Don't click if you're sensitive to these kind of issues, or coming to the realization of possible truths.

Spoiler

that's happening to Iraq as we speak, they could very well nuke them and get it over and done with, then re-build in their image
Now you may say its against the international rules, but if they "nuke" us first, that justifies us nuking them, just like 9/11 when terrorists were seemingly so stupid to send planes into the twin towers killing some thousand americans knowing that it would induce us to kill many more of them, but its okay cuz by them attacking us it justifies us to invade them...

 

If that is the "truth" i question how such a massive operation would be covered up. Since such an event being carried out with knowledge of the government would be total political suicide if it was ever leaked. Also if it was leaked America would collapse into turmoil. It would have required hundreds if not thousands of people to coordinate and all it takes is one to leak it to the media and everything falls to peices. America would have invaded Iraq anyway if it wanted to this badly. Its not like the war has been particularily popular anyway.

Besides if you have religion telling you to do something so that you then you go to heaven you will do it regardless of the concequences on real life. The Masterminds behind it were not disadvantaged when America invaded Iraq since this angered the people even more and many flocked to them giving them even more influence. So really you could say that the9/11 attack was just a device to make America invade Iraq so that hate towards America grew and more people flocked to various fanatical religous groups. Which seems to have succeded. America's economy is boosted. Religous fanatics get more followers.

Win Win eh ?

 

Well the simple thing to do is know life is a journey, not a destination. Believe it or not, there is more to life than material, otherwise there wouldn't be energy, elements.

To be honest, if someone told me a planet they have not told me about will collide with Earth or shift its poles resulting in the current (old) north and south poles to melt and raise the water level, thus flooding the world (cough, age of Aquarius) which may further result in material loss, I wouldn't mind. Just don't ignore your soul, that is all I'd ask of anyone :]

 

I believe that the freedoms america once shared has been compromised by a group of world bankers that control the federal reserve, and use oil as a currency to enslave the world economy. I believe that we, the americans are involved in this war that started with the world trade center attack for different reasons, but most reasons we are told were just sold to us by the manipulative media. I am in no doubt that there are many groups of greedy people involved in the iraqy war to get their cut . . . but above all things, I think it is just to seize control of the oil in that land. That whole bull crap about helping the iraqy people is just something the government and the bankers used to sell to the american people so the majority would support the war. George Bush is a puppet and a coward, and the 9/11 attacks were staged . . . I really believe it because I read all these conspiracies that go around everywhere, and you know what, they make more sense then the government's explaination.

And what's with this thing about the U.S.A. being a democracy that w bush likes to say all of the time? If I recall from american history, our founding fathers helped make this country into a republic -- A REPUBLIC, not a democracy - - - I pledge allegiance, to the flag of the united states of america, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation, under god, with liberty and justice for all.. For those of you who aren't from america, that is the american pledge they made us say when we were in school.

But yeah, times have changed, before the american dollar was worth almost 5 times as much; you could buy a soda bottle around 20 cents, now it cost over a dollar hahah, what kind of bull**** is this? And before 1920, american currency was backed by gold, now it is just legal tender. What's really messed up is the cost of living and higher taxes including the unconstituional and non-existant law, the income tax is mostly because the american government has to be loaned money from the federal reserve bank, with debt attached. From what I understand, the english had this same system back when they owned the 13 colonies before the revolution, and it was said by ben frankelin that this was the prime cause of the american revolution lol.

 

Well, Bush happens to be an idiot, and I don't expect him to know the difference between a democracy and a republic. And you're right, the US is a republic. If we were to vote for every little bill and measure we'd be a democracy. But as long as we have representatives (Senate, House of Representatives) we'll remain a republic. In fact the Constitution states that the US was meant to be a republic, not a democracy.

 

Do you guys think that the coming presidential will/can change anything to the current situation in Iraq (war against terrorism) and in the USA (buying power), and about this so-called self-proclamed world leadership?

Can it be worse (no offense)?
Can it be better, and, if yes, how?