attempted murder same punishment as murder?

i understand what Bralbers means, and its one of the main reasons i am against a jury system, seeing as humans ordinarily think: guilty untill proven innocent, and the jury has no training or experience to convince them otherwise

i like the dutch judge system though

 

How do the dutch do it?

 

we have professional judges who decide what punishment you get
in most cases there is one judge, though with complicated or serious crimes there are 3

 

So the entire decision is based off one guy? That's generally not a good thing, what if he was bribed?

 

I'm alright I'm moving to Holland! Fresh start and if I get in trouble I won't get my butt throwing in jail...hopefully. Oh wait Fenix makes a good point, nvm

 

actually, two guys, you can redo your case(in hoger beroep gaan) with another judge.
and for crimes with more then 5 years, i thought, there are the 3 judges

i dont really like the one judge thing either, but i think its better then a jury, an di can understand that they cant afford more for every case

 

That is just horrible. And they call that justice. Even if he was guilty, this is madness. And about the Dutch system: --in hoger beroep gaan-- is something like taking it to the supreme court in the usa, although it is more easy to get there then in the usa. -They seam to reject a lot of cases?-

 

In my opinion in some cases attempted murder should carry the same penalty as murder. However at no stage should this encompass the death sentence or even life imprisonment. It’s all very situational for example with euthanasia if it fails it is technically an attempt to kill and can be easily proven by the prosecution to be attempted murder but the convicted should not suffer the same punishment as they had the victims permission (I don't study law so this situation is too complicated to consider in a purely objective way).

The American system and the English/commonwealth criminal system are in fact different when it comes to attempted murder. The English system protects the accused by having the requirement that the prosecution proves that the accused had the mens rea "guilty mind" i.e they intended to kill and not just cause bodily harm. While the US system assumes that if you fire a gun at someone you intended to kill outright.

In the English system if someone is accused of attempted murder in the majority of cases I would support a similar punishment to that of murder as the accused would have had evidence which proved they intended to kill someone and were therefore dangerous to the public (Unless they were mentally unstable in which case they should be protected by the law and given the correct treatment). However under the American system I would be more wary because it covers a broader spectrum.

Its very situational and there shouldn't be any general laws when it comes to criminal law especially when it concerns an extra 10-life years in prison

 

The problem is that "attempt" is a vague word. You can attempt to do something but change your mind part way through.

There are different degrees of attempt, and different motivations and justifications for our actions. Accordingly, there should be different degrees of criminality to fit that.

In some situations an attempted murder can be more criminal than a successful one.

It depends on the mind of the criminal, the infliction upon the mind and body of another, the emotional infliction upon friends and relatives of the victim, and disturbing the peaceful feel of society.

 

That is why it is only called 'attempted', instead of 'attempted and changed mind' 'attempted and failed'. It cannot be proven that someone changed their mind. That is why they have to look into each case in a different way, instead of having various degrees like they try to maintain now.

 

Very true on that, that's why I standby my descion of a therapist coming in and checking what exactly was going on.

 

Forgive me for saying so, but it is quite obvious that you are a bit biased on that... ;p

 

Lol okay so I've been caught. Can you blame me though?

 

for trying to kill someone???


probably yes

 

I meant the biased part. As for the charge, I had my reason I won't go into detail but just to show you that I'm not a bad guy I'll tell you what manly caused me to snap. My girlfriend of that time cheating on my I found out with my then best friend.I felt betrayed so I acted irrational. That's what happened, no hunting someone down. No after this person I'll kill another.

 

oh a passion crime

did you know those things werent illegal in france untill 2000?

 

That's it. That was the last drop. France is officially weird now.

@ bralbers
Not saying that what you did was ok, BUT: love is one of the most primal emotions humans have. It can cause people to loose control and go crazy. People should not be punished for something they cannot control. However, killing a person goes to far in my opinion. Most people would just beat the crap out of the other guy. So it is very much possible to keep control of yourself in such a case.

 

to my opinion if you are convicted of attempted murder, then I'ts better than actual murder (in a backwards universe it's worse if you fail than when you succeed). although I've never been convicted of anything, I did a few bad things in my life.

 

Yeah well this thing keeps me from getting a job. Walmart just denied me because they did a background check and didn't like what they saw. At this rate I'll be forced to move back in with my parents by the end of the month.

 

I thought they had special programs for getting ex-convicts a job? Isn't that worth trying? Always better then having no job at all and living with your parents again.