Career choice...Kinda unusual...

Eh...even in Cuba, Communism's starting to falter a bit. Now that Raul is in power instead of Fidel, more than likely, a lot more reforms will probably come up.

One misconception about Cuba though is that people assume that it is a crap country. In fact, it's one of the more better off countries in Latin America, and ESPECIALLY in the Carribean. One of the main factors for its not so great economy though is the trade embargo, but we'll see how that goes in the future. Anyways, sorry, please lets get back on topic. Communism!!

 

I'm not a fan of communism or socialism... think about the slackers and inferiors you have to work your ass off for, so they can be equal with you. With capitalism/free market, you are free to soar above others in wealth and/or power if you are simply better than them. Also, you said you were not patriotic (neither am I), which makes me wonder why you are into communism. Patriotism usually plays a significant and necessary role in communist systems.

Anyway, do whatever you truly want to do in life. Don't fear what others are going to think of you because of your decisions. Everyone thought it was silly that I wanted to become a wrestler and they thought I was going to get nowhere in life, but look at me now.

 

Gm_K I really want to know, how do you propose to make Communism work? I'm not critiquing you or anything, I genuinely want to know how you would go about this. For some odd reason as of late, I have gotten interested in learning about Communism. Don't get me wrong, I love my Capitalist heathen of a US to death hehe, but I wanna see other views.

From what I understand, the only way to really make Communism work is through intense micromanagement and by an intense patriotic spirit in the people. What do you think?

 

First of all; this '' communism doesn't work '' is an incredibly narrow-minded statement. Even your government didn't/couldn't make this up, this is some part of the ignorence phenomenon which made the whole anti-communist propaganda so successful. Its a statement with no absolute proof or basis, just made popular because of its frequent use, but you know, that wont make it true. I am sure your government was pretty aware of communism working when the whole cold war was at its high point.

Its impossible to say this, because real communism never existed and has never been tried. Even if went up to a USSR/cuban/vietnamese official and asked them if their countries were communist, the would say ''of course not!''. They are not even totally socialist. Marx himself wrote that communism was a future concept.

Same way, I can say that capitalism doesn't work. You got inormously high rates of crime, poverty, social inequality, drugs addiction, racism, unemployment, suicide and unhappyness/depression. You have no trust in the government and your world view is very narrow. Now, you can't tell me that your system works, just because no-one is saying ''it doesnt work''. Looking at this I can say that socialist system in the USSR worked very, very well, much better in comparison. It worked well for more than 70 years. The fact that it dissolved had nothing to do with it not working, it couldn't have lasted so long if it was dysfunctional. Myth busted.

Now, lay off Cuba. Its a third world country, always was, and now for so many years it has even been blockaded by the US. Still, it has the highest amount of doctors per 1000 of population in the world, one of the lowest child mortality rate at birth, (WHO even gave mr. Castro a medal), very high literacy rate, high amount of industrial production, people are not hungry or dying on the streets, almost none are unemplyed or homeless. And Cuba is a third world country. Now compare this with some african country. They are not even trade embargoed, but the difference is very large. Pretty much shows communism working very well.

@ Chris Benoit- You are right about that one thing, that was a problem in the USSR. But it would have been solved if not for the Breznev stagnation and the very misguided Gorbachev reforms (which made things much worse, and thats all they did). The government should have moved into a more liberal stage of economy management, so stuff like that with the slacker wouldnt happen, and to suit public demands, but it didnt.

Itsmyship- The government had full control of the planning and administration of the economy. The advantages of that were that development was very fast, as the government could adjust the economy to suit state needs and handle large projects. But in the case of public demands and other small scale things, they were difficult to take care of with a economy interested in collective and state good. The govt. couldnt really micromanage it. Thats why after the ussr achieved a highly industrialised economy it should have concentrated on these issues. Patriotism in the ussr was basically celebrating state and labour success. Because ussr had so many ethnic groups and the fact that communism advocates the equality of each induvidual no matter race etc., it wasn't so important.

Laz, you are wrong. After you graduated from the university you were offered a job based on your speciality somewhere locally. After you got a job and while you have a job, you got a house from the government (free). There was no unemployment and you didnt have to worry about all these things or other crap. There were no poor or homeless people, only those who did not want to work. Everyone had a decent income. There was no racism, crime, drugs. Now you say that the government screwed people around, but it didnt. If you would look how your capitalist society treats people, you would see the difference. People in the ussr had much more self pride and sence of value, and they were truly happy. I would give up anything just to get to live there.

 

*gives GM k a cookie*
there you are, that's for beign smart and not stupid like 99% of the current world.

 

Awww thanks *eats cookie*

I can answer more questions if you have any.

 

hmm.
GM, why can't or couldn't "communist" coutnries go fully communist? you said it could work, so why doesn't anyone try. As far as i can see they don't want to try to make everyone equal, and that like you say, they're not truly communist.

 

They get to power, it's normal of people to not want to lose it and be "above equal".

 

then it seems hard for real communism to work, Meee. I mean, i'm rather selfless, but if i had the powr i'd want to keep it, it seems most people would do that, as you said.

 

That's the point. Communism is great and all, but it's just not for our kind.
Though I'd love GM_k to prove me wrong someday...

 

same here ^-^

 

I think marx stated that a dictatorship of the proletariat (ie workers ) would follow capatilism. Though it won't be an actual dictatorship since universal sufferage would be put into practise but he never planned out how such a government would be implemented. Eventually the state would "whither" away leaving a communist society. Thats kinda how you get around people giving up power, basically after a while their control is no longer needed or useful.

But then again alot of predictions marx made of what would happen under capitalism have been incorrect...

 

Its a long process, understandably. As I said, I think many people are communists because we all want to live in a harmonious state and want what communism wants. But there are of course many obstacles, such as trying to make all people clear thinking and peaceful, not racist, tolerant of other religions and cultures, trying to do things just because its good, not to idolise money and power, their selfish values and such. Thats why it is a future system. Yet future is not so far away.

Soviet Union, and many communist states did have equality. There were no classes, no rich or poor. It had over 200 different ethnic groups, but there was no racism, at all. It didnt exist. All of them had some sort of autonomous regions, and all were treated equally. People were mostly mature in the sence of the above mentioned goals.

The biggest challange was that soviet union was just one country in the world. It wasnt really possible for it to start developing further with a hostile capitalist world outside its borders. It had to remain competative and militaristic. This is the second problem. The government was authoretarian. Even though it was an idea of communism that in the beginning there should be a strong central authority to force things and plan everything (as marinefreak said) before things would liberalise and people would take care for themselves in a mature way. Yet the soviet govt. didnt really loosen its grip until it was too late and too much and that just made things worse, as I said earlier in my big post on this page. So basically it could not because it had to keep in power with other countries and that made the government conservatist and totalitarian, and as Meee said.

Now some communists, mostly Troskyists (I hope you know who Trotsky is, well, he was a communist revolutionary, as Lenin, but after Lenin died the evil Stalin took power and made Trotsky's an enemy ) argue that it is only possible for communism to develop if it happens everywhere in the world, a world revolution. They warned that this would happen, that the ussr would be basically stuck in the transformation stage from capitlism to socialism.

Also of course is the fact that most humans and governments are not mature enough yet for communism; we still have all these issues. Yes, they are being eradicated and the world is coming closer together, but there will always be those people, especially the evil fascist governments. ''Communism'' may be at a decline, but socialism is growing very fast. So many countries already are ruled by socialist parties, or they are often the opposition. Its becoming a reality, yet many still say that in the decisive stage it can only be brought with war, because some govts. will never listen and never want to give up their power. We are currently living in the most decisive stage. If we want to have a utopia, we need to fight for it, right now with political activism, but most importantly is to try to change our surroundings for the better with all the good qualities of communism.

@ Meee- Yes...we can never reach perfection, but we can always strive for it.

 

I get you Gm_K. I respect you very much now for giving intelligent and and a very intuitive opinion in the subject. You're obviously well read. I give you a red star

From the information I know, The USSR could actually have probably kept going for a longer time if it wasn't for the U2 incident and the fact that the Soviet government ousted Khrushchev. Also, when would you say Soviet Union started to go the wrong way? When Stalin chased out Trotsky?

Wouldn't you say though, Gm_K, that socialism is slowly starting to take form all over the world, even in the United States? I mean, with many things such as universal health care, more benefits to workers, and the such, would you say that some form of global Socialism is starting to become a reality?

PS, btw, the Soviet national anthem is probably the coolest national anthem ever put out in existence

 

where can i hear that anthem?

 

OMG
only words for it.
GM k, you make perfect sense. You should try talking out, being a speaker, I would go to your speeches. I know I'm in the US but I'd SO find a way. If you decide to become a member of the communist party, I assure you that you will be a brilliant speaker. Now, if only everyone else woudl get that and stop judging communism.

It's not some extremist and evil way of thinkin. Marx was brilliant for the idea, sadly you're right, we can't be perfect but can try to attain it. If we tried hard enough I'm sure we could get something along the lines of communism to work.

You are a veery intelligent and brilliant indivicual, and i'm sure you will be sucessful as a person whether you go into politics, business, or whatever else you coudl possibly work toward. I wish you luck my dear communistic friend and may the pure ideology shine upon you in good fortune =3

 

http://search.playlist.com/tracks/soviet anthem
(not the first entry, but the others) you may have heard part of it before, I know a couple of video games have used it.

GM_k is an idealist, lol. I'm not insulting you or anything, but you want a Utopia that I'm afraid no government will ever bring. You ask that an entire society of people lose their natural tendencies to greed, jealousy, egotism... for the greater good. I just wish I lived in a libertarian society. "You have the freedom to do whatever you want as long as you do not infringe on the freedoms or safety of anyone else." It's such a simple and logical philosophy.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLi_m656tQQ

That link has the anthem with english subtitles to it.

For a cooler sounding one, if you have a myspace, search Red Army Choir in the music section and listen to the anthm.

It makes you believe!

 

Aw, thanks for all the kind words and compliments guys. Its probably just the fantastic audience . I am just trying to make some sense. Communism itself says that communism is the only ideology without an ideology.

@ Itscollectivepropertyship-

First of all, I think Trotsky is definitely better than Stalin. He was much more like Lenin, a true communist who would give up power if needed. He knew what needed to be done, but he wouldn't be such a murderer and tyrant as Stalin.
Still, Stalin pretty much continued the dictatorship of the Proletariat (I.e. Totalitarian ruler) and heavily industrialised and developed a very backward state. Now orthodox communists and Maoists would say that it is after Stalin's death the Ussr stopped its develoment of the socioeconomic ideology, saying that all soviet leaders after that were not true communists. I think that during the Krushchev era things were still going well, there was development in the right direction, and the country recovered very well from the war to become a leading superpower.

Now the real issue of halted development was the Breznev (the guy after Krushchev, in office 1964-1982) years. At that point, ussr had achieved a complicated and highly developed industrial economy. The obvious choice (which was not met) was now to concentrate on consumer demands and liberalising the economy (I must say that in the Ussr, there were always long queues in front of shops because of lack of basic goods. Yet whats really amazing is that ussr did little or no trade and had to produce all its goods locally, and I think none of the developed countries today can handle that...there were loads of factories in every city... now most of them are redundant and people are unemplyed ). The main reason behind that was because everything was owned by the government, there was no competition (My parents also tell me this), and govt. put working quotas to every factory. But of course, because of the lack of competition and the fact that the govt. couldnt micromanage it well (I have said this before), demand poorly met. So now, because the economy slowed down when reaching that industrial milestone, it didnt develop any further, so it stagnated, basically being constant all the time. This is called the Breznev Stagnation. It was a very peaceful and happy time for the people, yet it really crippled the economy.

When Gorbachev came and tried to make it all work with drastic liberal reforms, they made the consumers even more stressed, and now the economy was not that effective, it started to deterioate with the unpofitable new systems and the fact that govt. lost the planning and control of it. Then it also lost control over the state and people aswell...

Personally, I think that if I was in Gorbachev's unfortunate place, I would take things more slowly, mostly working on trying to start the further development of the economy, liberalising some parts if it suited the goal (like a more efficient system of govt. planning), but mostly focusing on other parts of the economy. Then I would have a new Five Year Plan to accelerate the development and bring it into place. Then the liberal changes of both the economy and the people would be better to take place.

As for the second question, yes I do think the world is becoming more and more socialist. The governments and people are becoming much more mature, and they (govts.) dont want to face a revolution. Either that or that they have realised socialism. I hope it can all work out peacfully. Heres an interesting diagram of history according to marx found on Wiki:

1)Primitive Communism: as seen in cooperative tribal societies.
2)Slave Society: which develops when the tribe becomes a city-state. Aristocracy is born.
3)Feudalism: aristocracy is the ruling class. Merchants develop into capitalists.
4)Capitalism: capitalists are the ruling class, who create and employ the true working class.
<<<we be here, capitalism and socialism>>>
5)Socialism ("Dictatorship of the proletariat"): workers gain class consciousness, overthrow the capitalists and take control over the state.
6)Communism: a classless and stateless society.

@ Benoit-

Idealist? Not really. I'm realist, and I think the fact that I am communist makes me realise all those negative traits a lot more. Is it really that hard to give up those traits? I think the statement that people will always be immature, greedy, selfish etc. could be nothing more than another quite ignorant excuse not to read the Communist Manifesto . I do not find it hard. Seriously, people in the ussr had no real problem giving it up. Sure, they are all natural human things, we can't get rid of them, but bringing them down to a low level is not hard at all. Look at people in the middle ages and people now. Quite a difference.
-

I very much like answering your questions and discussing this very interesting subject. I am sorry if this is a notorious text wall!

 

Look i can tell you now that communism does not work. It is Physicaly and mentaly impossible for humans to live together with out fighting or trying to get more than others. If you believe different than sad as it is your just trying to kid yourself. People have been trying to make communism work since the beginning of our historic documents and it ends the same way every time. And everything i said in my last statement is completely true. There are no happy communist countrys except for the 0.10% of the people who have power. It is not something that can work and i wish it could as much as the next guy but it is quite and fully impossible.