Career choice...Kinda unusual...

I am sorry to say this but GM_k you are an idealist if you believe Communism can work, the nature of the human condition just works to hard against it for it to ever work. While I think most of your steps are accurate steps 5 to 6 will never happen, because once the "working class" takes over the first thing they will want is what all of the rich people had, but scarcity will set in and collaspe the government into anarchy due to wars over resources. After that we will just jump back to feudalism and the cycle will start over again. The only way Communism could possibly work is with a very small populace that is highly efficient with its use of resources and production of stuff chose to become Communist.

On a sort of different topic im not sure how well read you are GM_k but I recently read a book you might find interesting. Its called Brave New World and it was written by Aldous Huxley. In the book there is a World State that is just about the polar oposite of Communism and yet it seems far more likely to happen than a Communist state ever could. There is a section in the book that I think really effectively explains why Communsim would never work even though its not about Communism at all.

"The Controllers had the island of Cyprus cleared of all inhabitants and re-colonized with a specially prepared batch of twenty-two thousand Alphas. (an Alpha is basicly a rather smart person with free will and choice just like most people in our world, atleast by comparrison to some people in Brave New World) All agricultural and industrial equipment was handed over to them and they were left to their own affairs. The result exactly fullfilled all the theoretical perdictions. The land wasn't properly worked; there were strikes in all the factories;the lawswere set at naught, orders disobeyed; all the people detailed for a spell of low-grade work perpetually intriguing for high-grade jobs, and all the people with high-grade jobs were counter-intriguing at all costs to stay where they were. Within six years they were having a first class civil war. When nineteen out of the twenty-two thousand had been killed, the survivors unanimously petitioned the World Controllers to resume the government of the island."

The point of this excerpt should be obvious; and even Communist countries are still going to have jobs people like and jobs people don't like (assuming there is no slavery) and sooner or later the people with the cruddy jobs are going to get tired of it and the government will be doomed to collapse there and then. It is just the nature of the human condition to want more or better.

As I said earlier the only way Communism can work (without slavery) is if there is a ton of efficiency or there is a group of people willing to do the cruddy jobs. The first scenario probably won't happen in our lifetime if ever because even with near perfect efficiency there is going to be the good jobs and the bad ones. The only way the second scenario is going to work is in a small group of people that are idealistic enough to have some people volunteer to do the cruddy jobs, but time can change nearly anything and most likely sooner or later the volunteers will get tired if there are no new volunteers and the Communism will end there.

Well there is my two cents on Communsim I am sure some people will dissagree with me but so be it. GM_k I am sorry I didn't really respond to your original question but if you truly believe in Communism you are probably not going to get it by a world wide "working class" revolution, more likely that would be the death of everyone once nuclear weapons are used. If you really want to see Communism work I would suggest just getting a group people who all want to see it work and try to form and self reliant community and hope it spreads from there but don't expect it to, and don't try to hard to force it to spread, that is part of the reason Communsim has such a negative view nowadays.

 

Now, I am not talking about some lush garden where grapes fall into peoples mouths and all they do is be happy. I am talking about a world where there are no classes, equality and social justice, brotherhood and development. Where there is no dictatorship or exploited workers. Now thats not unrealistic at all. We are developing in this derection already, peacefully. As we move ahead in history, this will turn more and more into communism, as long as people realise the goal and try to achieve it. Of course, if it changed this second, it would collapse into chaos. Its a future system. Laz, you didnt give any examples of dysfunctual ''communist'' states in history (Because you can't) and you seem to have no hope for future development.

 

hmm, GM k, when did you first get interested in communism?
I always think it's interesting how people begin to know and understand things. I'm not trying to butt into your life or anything, I just want to know, since but a year ago I, myself, would have yelled at you for being a nazi or something. We all changed, and i think our veiw of communism can change but i'm still interested to know how you came up with this devolopment of thought and when you first decided it sounded like a good idea.

 

Well, practically all my life... I am one of the most probable people to be communist, considering my life story.

Well, I was born basically when the USSR collapsed and everything started to get very very crappy. Organised crime, corruption, poverty, unemplayoment, decaying infrastructure etc. I was too small to be unhappy or understand it all, so it was ok. There wasnt really any prospects for the future though in my small Siberian town. Pretty much got the frontline view of social inequality, dirty businnes and criminal capitalism.

But luckily then we moved to Sweden. Very developed, peaceful and very socialist country. It is probably the only country I like and want to live in. It also really opened my eyes and changed me. It also sparked interest in communism because I could now see how different is Russia, and I always thought it must been so much better during the communist times. After five years we had to go back. Now, I was old enough to see it with my own eyes. Very shocking. We didnt stay very long.

Now I live in Germany. The biggest economy in europe, very capitalist. Even though I can see the social changes, I can also see how people are different from those in sweden and in russia, much more capitalist, selfish etc. Now I also have many sources like internet and books, so communism is very strong in me. I have travelled almost everywhere in Europe, know 4 languages, and I am only 16. So pretty much, all this made me a communist.


Btw, I want to clarify some things about nazis. They are not socialists at all. Take a look at the political compass. In one direction goes socialism, and at the very end of it is communism. In the other direction from the middle is capitalism, and farther from capitalism is fascism! So as socialism leads to communism, capitalism leads to fascism. A state with total class based hierarchy, dictatorial government, maximum punishment, no freedom at all etc., meanwhile communism is the direct opposite. National socialism is fascism in the purest form, but also it is natioalist, that means it is against foreigners, i.e. racist (think of the jewish genocide), saying that their race is superior to all others. Its basically fascism, twice as bad. So its probably the biggest insult you can make to a communist person!

 

yup. i agree.
you need to help America, GM, even i as open as i am now, used to be blinded by the thought of communism and thought it was some evil heathen from hell. a lot of americans hate communism and think it is somethign it's not. we say it's evil and a sin agaisnt the world. people here have no idea about true communism. even my dad doesn't like it, or when i talekd about communism was a good thing for china at first. people are just narrow minded and not taught the essence of different political groups.

 

Yea Gm_K. Again, I could never renounce the US...I love it way too much, even with all its Capitalist ideas lol. I think I have a soft spot for Capitalism mostly from the stories of my parents life. Long story short, Dad was a street rat in El Salvador, came to America, worked his hardest. Mom was around during the Salvadoran Civil War, saw lots of bad stuff, got a refugee visa, worked her hardest, went to med school. Now my parents are around upper middle class, but they always taught my sister and I to never look down on others, instead try to help them, cuz that's what they used to be.

Btw Gm_K, your story sounds like it would be a backstory to a videogame lol. it's insane.

In essence, Communism is a very very good idea. But as was stated before, human nature doesn't allow it to be achieved in a sudden Revolution. In time, maybe it will be. We'll just have to see.

 

i know, we should make a video game about GM k =D
i can write the storyline =3

 

!. Business giving you political might is the reason America's government sucks so much. The person with the money wins which is why noone in a third party ever wins because the Democrats and Republicans have so much money. America is controled by the upper class which is total bull****

2. Communism IS NOT a political system Communism is an economic system whereby everyone is supposed to have an equal share of everything and the government is in charge of telling who to produce what.
===
Anywho
To GM_k thats not a strange carreer choice and I wish you luck

 

True that BoP. As long as the will of the people is met (i.e. Democracy) in some way, then I would gladly embrace Communism or Socialism, if it was for the good of the country.

 

GM_K i dont need to give you an example of a functioning communist society where everyone is happy because there is no such thing. Why dont you give me an example of when communism has worked for more than 100 years before the society has fallen down on itself. Your just kidding yourself man.

 

Lol, a videogame? Travel the world leading a world revolution, becoming the new Lenin? (FPS genre?)

Btw people, its not like America is bad and such...We are all equal people.

Laz,

 

Marx was wrong on many things he predicted would happen under our Capitalist system
1.Declining real wages of the working class
2. Declining rate of profit for capatilists
3. State intervention would not stop increasing poverty under Capitalism
4. Growing reserves of the unemployed
5. The market would have fewer and fewer capatilists and competition would devolve into monopolys

These predictions made almost 150 years ago have not occured because governments have moved more heavily towards socialism economically to stop them from happening. Yet this has also destroyed the need for the world to turn communist. The reasons for a change in system was based on the above predicitons but now we see that Marx was wrong. Union membership in all nations save for Denmark, Norway , Sweden has fallen sharply over the last two decades. For example Australia in 1990 had 40.5% union membership but in 2007 it was at 18.9%.

One hundred years ago it may have seemed to be possible and even Necessary but with changes in technology and the political structure of the world. I really don't see it ever happening

Socialism to some degree - Necessary
Communism -Unnecessary

 

dude if i knew how to make video games, i woudl so make one. called the GM k rev or somethign like that.

then get arrested by the US because i supported communism. yay America! Yes, i do love my homeland of America, I won't lie, but this idea of communism i am learning to like xD

 

Marinefreak, all you have said already happened. Learn of the industrial revolution. Then, as predicted, revolutions all over the world happened. And you are right, they did move to socialism to stop more from happening. If anything, Marx was right. We are now in the historical stage of socialism. Now, how can you say communism is unescessary?¿? First, that doesnt make any sence, second, If we are living in a socialist society, communism is our future.

Lol kurai. But you can't get arrested for supporting communism, or? Weird.

EDIT: Whats this weird bar under meh name?

 

The orange one shows your level and the green one your activity.

 

Yes but it is currently the bourgeoisie who are in government who are moving to a more controlled system (Instead of the proletariat) and it is not like the system marx predicted. If anything governments around the world have stopped any chance of communism occuring because they have succeded in pleasing the people and staying in total power. The amount of people who would benfit greatly from communism has diminished substantially since Marx's day. The historical stage of socialism as you call it is a very perverted version of Marx's. Marx did not think we could hold back the free market while still following a mainly capatilist system but he seems to have been wrong.

The proletariat in our current world is well off enough to not care that they are to some extent exploited. Technology has also contributed greatly to this.

 

If your argument is correct Marine and that the Proletariot are being exploited in some way, doesn't that mean that the classes are starting to become less defined?

Another thing that you also have to think about is exploitation in other places other than the main Western countries. Look at parts of Asia, of parts in Latin America (granted, it has gotten more stable), and of course, Africa. The poor are exploited still in those parts of the earth to a large extent. Communism in the form of the Soviet Union may have died, but the exploitations, poverty, and all such that Socialism was originally trying to solve is still a factor in society. With that in mind, many people may still turn to Socialism so to fix their problems. If Socialism does come around, it will be by people who are not intent on political or economic agendas, but by people who just want a better and easier life, which is good; the pursuit of happiness is a basic human right.

 

Thanks for jumping in there for me itmyship, I kinda forgot to answer.

I would like to add that in many states the western world are socialist. Democracy is well developed there. They are not run by some capitalists, but by people who care. Its very few states where capitalists managed to create an illusion of happiness, but even there the schism is clear, and it will ultimately climax to a revolution against these fascist means. In many parts of the world, as itmyship said, developed and developing, Marx's theory is still waiting to come in place, but most of the world is run by socialist governments. As globalisation becomes reality, people will come to socialism.

 

Some South American countries have already moved towards socialism such as Bolivia and venezuela. As well as this India and Nepal have very strong socialist parties.Yet in these countries democracy still gives them the means to flip back to a more free economy with a different party since if given the chance people won't stay with the same government forever. What i am in fact argueing is that communism will not come about even though the world shifts to a more socialist system. Old socialist countries (I won't use the word communist since they weren't >>) such as China, Laos, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Cuba are infact now going back towards capitalism because they see the need to "enrich" their nations and keep up with the west.

Even Marx states that capitalism is required to enrich the nation which is what these poorer countries need. Russia moved from a backwards fuedal system to socialism with only a 2-3 year pause for capitalism (Argueably before the revolution changes were slowly being made) and the result was a country which required a dictatorship to hold it together (Lenin attempted to bring back a more free market for a time with New Economic Policy but Stalin stopped it when he took power).

This failing in a way supports Marx's idea that world revolution will only be achieved if the proletariot in the wealthiest nations are the first to lead the uprising against the bourgeoisie. But this is not happening now because instead of argueing for complete socialism we have just created a more tightly controlled yet still highly capitilistic system.

You could also argue that communism does infact restrict freedom because even if you are brilliant and create vast amounts of wealth for your country, you will not be allowed to rise above your peers to any great extent.

In my opinion it is a question of whether you want freedom OR equality (Total in both cases, i prefer the wishy washy line in the middle). We were not created equal because nature just isn't like that. Some people are smarter than other and some people are harder working. In our current system no matter what background you come from if you are intelligent and willing to put effort into what you do you will rise up the ladder basically ( And i quote Bioshock =P) "where the great would not be constrained by the small"!

So really our system isn't bad or "evil" and works the way it is and doesn't need the massive sweeping changes associated with communism.

 

To answer you, Gm k, i'm not sure. But i think people can get arrested for supporting communism. with all the random searches and unlawful killings of muslims it wouldn't surprise me at all. America is the land of freedom, and God bless i love it, but there's somethign WRONG with it now.

Presidenta have to be rich, that's the first rule. people who don't have money for campaigna adly can;t win. Because i don;t like where our current election is going. You probably don;t know so i'll give a basic run down.Hillary clinton's slogan basically "vote for me, i'm a woman and just like you."/ Barack Obama- "i'm black, and will bring something new to the presidency"/ McCain-"i'll instate the old things but make them better"

it's really unfair when you look at democrasy here in the US then see what people do to win. You can;t ar=sk certain questions to hillary or to Obama because people will say you're stepping out of line (they belong to the democratic party. if you don't know what it mean,s that's fine. i don;t think anyone understands anymore) but you can be mean and insult McCain for being old. Where is the fairness of that? we can;t judge other candidates that way so what gives us the right to hit on McCain?

In all, sometimes all this makes me wonder ifdemocracy is all it's cut up to be. It makes me think communism would be a lot better. at least people would stop being such bloody hypocrites.