Demonic Possession?

perhaps we need new topic about genetic memory?

Demestic dogs for example, have their instincts and will attack a human if neccessary, although due to the heirachy system, will most likely not attack a usual companion of the dog that has sufficient experience or training to control the dog even if threatened and will defend said person against threats. Dogs natural tendency to the system that allows them to live among humans, the same thing seen in wolf packs, is an instinct that simply supported the separation of these sub-species. The difference, is the experiences and teaching. A dog will have grown up with humans, with positive experiences with humans and more so will have experienced that the mother and any other dogs display no fear and infact affection to humans and will learn very quickly that this benefits them. The different breeds of dogs is very much our play on natural selection, a good hunting dog will be bred with another good hunting dog thus faking survival of the fittest. A wolf on the other hand, will be born almost exactly the same but have very little if any contact with humans and will therefore display the xenophobia that every animal, including humans, evolved as a survival. demestic animals act for their interests, just have a different education, so to speak, and use for their instincts, than their wild counterparts.

Environment shapes behavior and, in my opinion, genetics simply help the individual have the physical capacity to perform the action. Like engineering, the engineer will likely be trying to instill a similar skill set in his son and may even be more willing and able to get him the appropriate education for the job than the electrician for example, making it much easier for the child to take this course of action and instilling interest in it and an earlier age.

Language itself is something that children as exposed constantly to, given their constant brain activity constantly making connections at a much faster rate than any other time, they are going to pick it up at an extremely quick rate. Infants can identify individual ape and human faces, being constantly exposed to humans and never to apes, they have no use for recognizing the differences between individual ape faces and quickly lose this trait while keeping the human side for obvious reasons.

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i lean more towards the religious for demonic possessions, although not shown sufficent evidence either way, think its certainly a possibility.

 

and then, how do demonis possesions occur?
I was at Luna's house and we were talking about it. She thought, things like wigi(weigie? wege? idk, those boards with all the letters and numbers and stuff) boards are like, portals from this world to the undead world. she explained it as different TV channels. but i think it's more comparable to radio frequencies. You have out channel, and the demonic channel, or spirits, or undead, or whatever you want to call it. Anyway, there is always that bit between the channels, if you can find it, where it gets uber fuzzy and you get stuff from both channels. that's what i think a wiji board does. And in possessions, i believe demons are somehow able to pull themselves into this realm through that 'channel'. anyway, it's hard to say what exactly a demon does.

in a posession, if they actually exist, the demon takes control from the range of the mind, to the body. So, the question is, does it affect the brain?

I think it does, temporarily. If you look, for humans, instincts can be over ruled by thought. Like, when someone sees food and is hungry, it is their instinct to eat it. Humans can make conscious decisions against eating it, hence why people can lose weight or gain weight, regardless of signals or instinct. Also, reflexes, like the knee jerk or achillis reflex, can be overriden by our conscious thoughts. done it in the doctor's office, and in anatomy and phys class. Instinct is passed down, and maybe, as you said, once something is done many times throughout a blood line, it becomes instinct. But, i don't think it's as simple as that. It takes generations for somethign like that to happen. Not just, great grandfather. Probably at least 5 or so generations. Because i believe some of that info is carried over, but not enough to consciously build fully onto that person. there are different sections of the brain, and they can be passed down genetically. thus, the genetic tendancies.

but, learning is another thing. the frontal lobe of our cerebrum is our conscious thought and it mostly applies to our life, not the lives of those before us. Things such as instinct and unconscious things like balance are controlled in the cerebellum or the medulla. over time, traits, i suppose, could be passed down from conscious to unconscious thoughts. However, I'm no expert on the field.

don't ask me how levitating someone would work though, i have no idea.

 

Ouija. Words are never spelled the way you want them to be huh?

 

omg, you serious? Dx
now i feel stupid. @_@''

 

Quick thing, the frontal lobe's primary purpose is decision making. That's about it.

As far as demonic possession affecting the brain, I personally think it's just the opposite. The brain is the center of our thought process, no? I don't think it's possible for one will to completely dominate another in its center of power. Instead, I think that possessions actually cut off the body's relation to the brain, and the controlling entity (not necessarily demon, I'm going a tad broader here) acts as a puppeteer, with our body as a marionette, if you will. Without input and output, our mind goes into hibernation, ie a deep sleep. That's why a lot of people only remember such experiences as a blur, or even not at all.

 

ahh, yes, that makes more sense. I didn't think about that possibility. it would also explain why people don't remember.

 

I'm skeptical of this whole thing. I am fairly certain that demons are as fictional as wizards and djinn, none of which I have any reason to believe in. Also, the news source is hardly trustworthy, as the WorldNetDaily has made many bizarre claims in the past. The psychiatrist, though he is certified, writes with a predisposition to believe in demonic possessions and can't be considered objective enough to make a fair assessment of the woman's condition:

I'd read his article, but I would have to get a subscription to the New Oxford Review or pay $1.50 to buy the article, neither of which appeals to me.

Simply put, I think that observers exaggerated the events and the woman probably had some psychological or physiological problems, possibly treatable ones.

 

They don't however, unless the person that they have grown up with tells them to, provided they have the neccesary control of the dog. Instincts can be over ridden in more then just Humans, dogs obviously show it, though it takes a certain degree of intellect to do it. Cats don't normally follow the seperation from their instincts, they do a little bit, but not as much as dogs, they don't have the same reasoning skills as dogs do.

Do you mean mental capacity? With the example you said, with the sons of engineers and electricians, they all have the same physical capacity to do these jobs, their environment just gives them the interest and mental stimulation of being around it all of their lives.

Because at that age, they have so little knowledge, that they can't think of their own meanings for things as easily, nor do they have any sort of belief system to bias them in any direction, so they pick things up extremely fast, cause it's just like programming, the Human being taught to go against it's instincts.

Of course they can't distinguish between different ape faces after they have been taught to go against their instincts, seeing faces of some speices you have never seen but still being able to tell the difference between them of a physically more dominate speices is instinct. Seeing the faces of the people you know is environment.

I think the TV channel thing you mentioned, makes sense, we just haven't learned to be able to channel any energies that would allow us to cross into any other planes of existence. I don't see what are being refered to here as demons as Satan's pawns, I see them as another race, from another plane of existence, that have the ability to channel the energy to cross planes, and interfere with the human brain. Being an intellegent speices, humans should have the capacity to do such things, but maybe it is farther ahead in the future, that more research into human nature, or the structure of the brain is needed.

Again going with what I was saying a little bit up, intellect has a sway over instincts, you can choose to not eat something for some reason, or you can go with what your instincts tell you, and eat it. You can choose to run in a dangerous situation, or you can choose to stay and help anyone or fight anyone/anything according to the circumstances.

Makes snes, instinct has to come from somewhere. It's not going to come from what just your father and grandfather did, but maybe great great great grandfather did if it was passed down with the generations.

I think instinct would be wired in some other part of our brain, a part that isn't directly assoicated with thought or decision making, which is why it is still something that is brought up during situations, however, this part of our brains would be the most strongest, and thus why it is able to exert control over almost everything else in our brain.

Yeah, seriously, that is some odd spelling, what language is it derived from?

Aren't decision making and thought very nearly related? You have to think about what you're deciding, or you should anyway.

They are still effecting the brain, not just cutting it off, controlling it, it may still be intact, and may still be able to come back, though going into a deep sleep and not remembering much, but they're still controlling the brain, to control most of the body itself, along with the brain, would likely just be too taxing, just controlling the brain, and understanding how it works, and knowing when to let it do what it is s'posed to do, and find a balance, is going to be much more effecient.

Not believing is one thing, just please don't be close minded about things, don't dismiss things out of hand. Not saying that you are completely dismissing them, but it seems to me that you would if there wasn't such a big arguement about it.

 

Actually, kinda the opposite. This is kinda a new thing, so it's not 100%, but apparently our subconscious is far better at choosing the right decision in complex cases then our conscious brain.

(Source, Less reliable source, but with links to more sources]

Well, the way I see it, demonic possession rarely involves a demon influencing a person's rational decisions, it's usually more described as a physical possession rather than a mental. And I think it's the opposite of what you said in the second bit there. Literally controlling the mind would be nearly impossible. It's like, say, trying to tie up a fully fit and physically adapt person. But if you put them to sleep or otherwise sedate them, it becomes that much easier.

 

Sentience is what you're referring too, humans are sentient they can override their instincts with conscious decisions, and dogs will attack in order to defend themselves or a 'pack member' from danger, there is no overriding that, any amount of training simply tells them not to assume danger as easily.

Mental and physical, and they don't necessarily have the same capabilities to do the job, i was talking in the much wider sense, genetics shape your body.

Learning uber fast when young is a surivival technique, in more harsh conditions, when you are born you must learn and learn quickly, when you are in the infancy stages is when you would need to learn from your parents and community members what to eat, how to tell if there is a crock in the water or which way to fly, it is necessary in the wild and does not go against instincts at all (?)

They are not taught to go against their instincts, its just one piece that never properly develops as it has no use (the ape faces part).

Again, the ability to choose whether to follow your instincts is sentience.
In the example you gave, both running and standing with others are instincts, most animals will demonstrate both at times, flight is buried way deeper, something that we couldn't have survived evolving without, fighting together is something enhanced by our greatest ability, communication.

Its not that odd, its like that in a lot of Latin based languages, French yes which we pronounce 'we' is spelt oui

Not believing is dismissing...

 

not believing isnt the same as dismissing, did you ever hear of the difference between an agnost and an atheist for an example
an atheist doesnt believe in god and dismisses the possibility
an agnost doesnt believe in god but doesnt dismiss the possibility of him being wrong and god existing

 

Agnostics haven't made up their mind on the matter, they are not persuaded either way.

 

@darkone, others:
I fail to see how being skeptical of (this) demonic possession is being close-minded when the only sources that claim it is true are the members of this forum, none of whom were present during the supposed exorcism, and articles of disputable merit. I wouldn't suggest that you were being close-minded if you doubted the existence of my cold-fusion reactor that I built in my basement last summer. As for dismissal vs. not believing, while I might be dismissive of this, I am not generally dismissive of things I don't believe. Instead, I look to see if there is any evidence to support the claim. If there is, I change my stance. If there isn't, I remain skeptical.

As far as this case of supposed possession, we have the word of a singe group of people and no other evidence. I can't help but be doubtful about the veracity of the claims.

 

Another race? I didn't really consider demons a race because I always assumed they were like, an evil entity. But I suppose you could be right, that would make sense. I'm a little scpetic about planes of existence, but I'm sure that's pretty much what i was saying, too. Just saying it like that reminds me of TC shows like digmon...sorry. I see your point, though. and i'm pretty sure it was mine only simplified. Yes, if demons exist I think there could be things in this world that allow them to crossover. Such as the Ouija board.

Not just humans, either. Other animals can do it, too, i believe. It's just harder because they aren't as advanced as we are. they simply don't know any better to overwrite instinct. And, I think Phoe was right here on the fact that demons interrupt the brainwaves to the body. It would make sense more than them manipulating multiple brain waves.

Reflexes and instinct are in the medulla or the cerebellum. And not the strongest =/
the cerebrum is the largest part of our brain and most of it is for decision making and thinking. It's our conscious thoughts, and our senses (I won't go into which parts of the cerebrum control what) But, the post central gyrus on he brain is basic motor functions i.e. walking, running, etc. these can easily override anythign from the medulla. but the medulla ALSO works with us, trying to steady our body, balance our bodies for what we have to do.

"There are several theories about the origin of the term "Ouija". According to one of these, the word is derived from the French "oui" (for "yes") and the German/Dutch "ja" (also for "yes"). An alternative story suggests that the name was revealed to inventor Charles Kennard during a Ouija séance and was claimed to be an Ancient Egyptian word meaning "good luck.". "

thinking is where the product of mental activity occurs. Decision making is the choice to act. I see where I went wrong, I use them a little interchangeably. So do people 'i thought about blank' but thinking doesn't necessarily mean you're making a decision. Though the thinking and the decision making both take place in the cerebrum. And a fair deal in the temporal lobe.

It's not the opposite. But, my anatomy teacher told us our subconscious brain keeps things from our conscious brain. Her example is when we get a cut but our brain doesn't inform us of it on a level we'll know it. so our brain knows it, but we don't. that's why sometimes when we look at a cut, it hurts. Because our brain finally decides the message should get there because the eyesight and brain work together to make a cohernat and fully formed signal. There are other examples, too, but you might want to read into it, I'm no expert on this.

Animals can be taught to go agaisnt their instinct all you want, but the truth is, no animal can be denied instinct as it is hard routed into our very being. you can teach somethign not to do what they should. But in a situation, it will still have instinct. what you would teach them is merely not acting on instinct. you cannot make that instinct go away.

No...it's not. I may not believe my friend is going to get a car for her 16th birthday, but that doesn't mean it's not still a plausible thing in my mind. Not belieivng is simply choosing to think soemthign has not/did not/will not happen. It does not change how a person will think about it, and it does not mean they brush it off. Some people do, yes, but you cna't just assume for this factor.

@sodium: i agree, but there are documented cases, too. they could be forged and exxagerated as well, but i still believe things like this could very well happen.

 

You're right on the dismissing =/= not believing thing, i didn't think about it properly.