Do we live in a free society?

That indeed I am, it means more than just generalizations. As you said I was lumping "everything" together because I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about religion as a whole. I also support that you are a mindless drone because I highly doubt you thought of the entire Mormon religion by yourself and just found this organization that had the exact beliefs as you, thus you were 'taught' to believe in such things by another, meaning they have now basically taken control of half of your actions and decisions with 'morals' and the such. That goes for every single person who believes in any abnormal and unprovable thing with hard core facts instead of a few books and words that were made 1000 years ago.

 

Flat out, you're saying any religious person is in possession of a confined mind and is a mindless drone. I am a religious person. If I'm closed minded, your definition of open minded would be mind boggling.

I never said I was Mormon from birth. Did it ever occur, in your closed minded thought process here that I'm a convert? That the theories and moral practices of the LDS religion meshed with my already existing mindset?

Of course not.

Ah, so, you're a mindless drone as well! A product of the education system. Oh, yes, they don't teach such petty things as morals in school, but, you're still close minded to, say, the theory that the sky is blue because 7+5=12. We should make a club!

See, now, this is getting into a nature vs nurture debate. Am I who I am because of the way I've been brought up? Or was I predestined to be an honest, productive member of society? Of course, since I'm a close minded individual due to my religious lifestyle, I can't possibly fathom any kind of explanation to that, because all I know is what my church leaders tell me. There's obviously no way I, nor any other person who believe in any kind of spirituality or mysticism could ever form a coherent thought of our own.

Am I understanding your ravishingly well thought out, wonderfully and clear-as-crystal conjecture as to why religion is what's wrong with everyone?

 

It's all just a matter of perspective anyway. I think that as a society and as a people we think too much in black and white, right or wrong. Although Fenix you can't say religion is completely innocent either as it does influence people to a certain degree and is one of the main reasons of conflict. Throughout history this has been proven. However, I'm not saying its the religion or belief system itself but the influence it has on people and the way people decide to follow it and interpet it. Current day Islam is a good example as you have some people that will kill others just because they aren't the same type of Muslim and others that aren't violent at all and want to come together.

I think we should get back to the main topic at hand though instead of bickering with each other on who is right or wrong, who is open or closed minded or not, which is part of the problem.

Personally, I think it is impossible to live in a completely free society where you can do whatever you want currently because humans as we are now aren't responsible enough for that and if we had no laws or anything it would be anarchy and complete chaos. So no I don't think we live in a completely free society and I think that is a good thing because there is a problem with having too MUCH freedom.

 

Never claimed religion was innocent


I would've pretty much just let the whole thing go if DB had admitted she was wrong, particularly about the generalizing. I mean, honestly. Does anyone here consider me a mindless drone? I'm serious, you can PM me if you like (don't worry, I won't ban you @_@)


Aside, has anyone read Lord of the Flies? I think it applies well here.

 

I think Darth_Bane is entitled to his/her opinion but should also respect others as well and I would have to say everyone is at least partly a mindless drone including myself and you can find many examples of this throughout society, especially on the Internet with its fads,etc. I doubt many of you would be saying things like "It's over 9000!" or terms such as ftw, lol if the Internet didn't popularize it. The same thing goes with other things in society such as what beliefs and behaviors are acceptable and not. We aren't complete zombies no but we are influenced by things nonetheless and there is really no avoiding it either because I think it part of human nature as well.

 

No, we're not mindless drones.

If we were mindless drones, there would be no differing of opinions.

 

indeed it does(read it when i was bored)


religion is close minded, religious people on the other hand often are not.
but anyone is close minded to a certain degree

 

Religion's not closed minded, it stretches you to believe things without equations thrown at you. Atheism is closed minded, "I cannot believe it until i have physical evidence, our science, although ever changing, is absolute."

 

i see atheism as a religion in this case

religion is close minded because it doesnt concider it could be wrong, there are rules with no purpose but following the religion
religious people arent always close minded because they can see past the rules, see what is right for them

 

So for being ætheist, I am close minded? That is news to me.

I was once christian, I was raised as a baptist, but lost my faith. I don't care what people believe, so long as they don't force it on me. I dated a Catholic girl even. coughkuraicough

I am not close minded.

I will say that I am stubborn though.

 

no what i said was: atheism is close minded, atheists on the other hand are not always close minded

 

I think you guys are missing the forest for the tress here. Whether or not somebody is or isn't cose minded really must be decided on an individual level and thus lumping any group of people into one side or another is a bad generalization, however whether or not someone is or ins't close minded isn't the point. Most people believe in something that can't be proven, that's ok because eventually through thje hard work of these believers some of these ideas will be proven (though most won't). The problem with religion isn't whether or not somebody believes in something that may or may not be false, it is the fact that several religious institutions keep pushing there ideas and beliefs on other people who dissagree. Several religions have become more of a bussiness than a set of beliefs and that is the main problem.

 

I agree whole heartedly LK.

Religions want peace for mankind, a better way of life. However they are so violent towards those who don't agree with them.

Holy wars, Crusades, Witch hunts, Heretic trials, Suicide bombers, Excommunations(sp?). They want what they want, yet they can't see past differences, and try to change people, and become part of the problem themselves.

 

as i said, the religion itself is close minded, but are the religious people who decide for themselves if they choose to listen to nothing else, or are still open

 

Wait, what? Dude, pass me whatever your smoking because I want some. Atheism is by its very definition "the state of being without theistic beliefs" religion is the exact opposite on that. I wonder how anyone get religion from "Yea I don't believe in 'god' and creationists kinda bug me but yea, I'm all for science and stuff like that"? I will admit some people who are atheists give the rest of us a bad name because when a person sees what they believe to be the truth or "light", they try to postulate it to others and constantly preach and denounce others. There will always be zealots to any cause or movement. Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

Public opinion is often wrong, mob opinion is almost always wrong, [and] religious opinion is wrong by definition. But people ... don't even know what atheism is. It's not a negation of anything. You don't have to negate what no one can prove exists. No, atheism is a very positive affirmation of man's ability to think for himself, to do for himself, to find answers to his own problems.

"If we look back at the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them, in order to make the blindness of man serve their own interest. If the ignorance of nature gave birth to Gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them."
~Baron d'Holbach, France, 18th century.

 

Æthiesm is a lack or religion yes, but as far as religious rights go, it is considered as one.

You say there will always be people who are zealous to their cause, this is true. You yourself have shown this. You are pushy sometimes with what you believe.

 

and you're not doing the exact same thing? I'm sorry, excuse me while I choke on irony and total BSery

 

this is funny cause i live in Amsterdam

Bald isnt a hair color, but i'd at least call it a hair style.
It isnt religion as much as set of belief that is often passed down through parents and youth contacts, and should legally have the same status of a religion, but that is way too long to say each time, so i say religions

Atheism is believing god doesnt exist because there is no proof, what you are saying is more like agnostism, which rather states that you dont know god exists, because there is no proof

im always very annoyed when people start quoting people, why is what some guy said more important then what you are saying, how could that count as an arguement

 

When you quote people on things like this, isn't it just the same as following someone as if your in their religion?

That is the feeling I get. Anyone else?

 

I think of it as my thoughts put into words in a nice shape (when I do this)
or just something that fits the situation