Iraq

Can everyone stop correcting other's points? Everyone please stop trying to prove the other person is wrong now. We are not here to debate who is right and who is wrong.

This is turning into those typical political discussion on forums, everyone is quoting bits and pieces from others and reply to that quote. This needs to stop. I don't want to lock this topic, and currently it looks like it's not heading in the right direction.

 

Next they will propably raid Iran's imaginary nuclear silos on their quest for black gold.

Lock the topic. There's no other way.

 

ill try to be less zealous.

this is what happened prior to the invasion:

after the 9/11 attacks, as a part of ''war on terror'', Bush stepped up international pressure against Hussein , accusing him of developing WMD's. UN weapons inspectors arrived in the country in november 02, backed by a UN mandate warning of severe consequences if iraq failed to co-operate.
in march 03 the chief inspector repoted to the UN that iraq was complying with the search but he needed more time to complete his inspection. US and Britain refused to accept this and started the invasion. subsequent weapons checks revealed that there were NO WMD's in iraq.

US was too hasty and ignorant, thinking iraq would be easy to beat, underestimating and forgeting about the religious sects and groups.

 

I agree with you mc2 and I am sorry for challenging other people's views. This topic will continue flowing on and on with each and every additional member's input, however I question the point of having a lounge forum when debates are barely tolerated.

I have to say though, it should be locked! For the good of humanity! :gossip:

 

"we will bring democracy to Iraq" is the worst

 

The worst part is the complete apathy towards the Iraqi civilians by many people around the world.

 

Ive been thinking about it for some time actually. I belive that that war and the excuses for it were plain crap (No weapons of mass destruction, and the US has helped more bloody dictators than those it has actually taken out "for democracy"). But I think it should stay there. The invasion threw the country into a chaos that was a thousand times worse than what Saddam did when he was in charge. Actually the americans should have asked him what he did to keep things in order before hanging him (irony). Point is that if the US pull out now Iraq is going to face a civil war that is gonna last ages. The american troops are the only ones that can help restore peace. Many people complained against the president sending more troops to Iraq because they simply thought the war was wrong. Yeah the war was wrong I say to them, but sending even more men is the only way te restore peace. Quiting will only make things worse, for Iraq and for the image of the US.

I disagree with those who say that things couldnt be worse. They could be. The americans intercept a lot of weapons, take down a lot of terrorists and actually DO help reduce civillian casualties.

The troops should stay. The americans are responsible, but even so it is not an excuse for OTHER countries to send HUMANITARIAN HELP (not more soldiers). In that I agree with paragon. The world doesnt really give a crap.

 

i actually think that bush is a fool if he wanted to invade iraq he should of went in it 100 percent instead of half ass it . we would lose less troops that way. it is hard to be selective in war when the enemy is veiled as an civilian. im sorry to say but innocent people are going to die in war.

 

Look at the Kurdish controlled area. Most of it is free of terrorist attacks with the exception being Kirkuk. They have tons of new buildings some of which are made mostly of glass. These have not been shattered by explosions and they keep building more. They want to join the global economy and escape the stagnation that has encompassed most of the Middle East.

@millions, the US could turn Iraq into a firestorm within less than hour if it so desired. But, this would be very bad for the world image of the united states and be very very bad for the Iraqi people as they would all be dead. It is important to minimize civilian casualties.

 

America should pull out of Iraq because it costs so much money to wage war. Money better spent on Americans, instead of on Iraqis and the killing of Iraqis. I dont really care about the human cost of war, as the people fighting it volunteered and so dont deserve my sympathy. Think about the money the war costs at $177Million per day they could pay everyones taxes with it.

 

Congratulations AdmiralAckbar, you've won my least coveted award: Worst Attitude Ever

 

AdmiralAckbar, how many people do you think join the military for the cause that they believe they will be fighting for as opposed to how many people join because they are so destitute that the best option they see for themselves is to put themselves in mortal danger in order to have money to go to school if they survive their tour(s)? Not everyone who joins the military says "I'ma go to Iraq to kill me some A-Rabs" as they are walking towards the recruitment office; it's not that black and white.

 

All I can say is this. The world is carved out of choice. Choice is carved from necessity and thus from living. Everyone has choice albeit they follow others choices. With these choices comes responsibility for the actions of others and their choices. No one is immune from it and no one can stop it. As choice grows we can only hope that people who understand the true meaning of choice will use it to its extent if they have the means to. As the world is today it seems most don't understand.
All anyone can do now is hope that humanity as a whole can learn to accept this subtle fact of life and try to become better as a whole otherwise the world will run itself into chaos through the narrow minded ideals of a few who only seek to live above the rest. This is our world and we decide what happens on it. Through the actions of one person can it change, but, through the choice of many can it change forever. Thats my hopefully sensible thought their, If not, I will delete this later.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rw2nkoGLhrE





so remind me, why are the terrorists making terrorist attacks?

 

and all people with turbans are terrorists, and all black men are pimps, and everyone asian speaks fractured english, right?

 

Did someone say anything racist? Last I checked terrorists weren't a race.

 

...are you stupid? terrorists dont want to rule anything

 

I hope you're talking to StarCraft144000.

 

Um... terrorists want to create strict Islamic-law bound societies similar to the one the Taliban had going in Afghanistan but even move Islamic-centric. And they want to rule over those places. So yes, they do want to rule over things. Remember kids, before calling people stupid make sure you're actually correcting them with something correct.

 

Hmmm... I've seen a lot of opinions on this thread that may have been based on false truths.

To tell you the truth the two most coherent arguments I've seen on this thread have been from Paragon and Imagine, in order of points made. Their opinions were well-formed and their information gleams true among all the "flabber" spewed afterward.

The truth is that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. It wasn't a terrorist hotbed before because Saddam kept such a tight rein, but it is now, and it is our duty to deal with that accordingly as we have caused it.

Before looking at anything else, it's important to understand a couple of things:

1) Things in Iraq ARE better. They're free. They can do as they please, they don't need to fear being tortured because of their beliefs. But they do need to fear being killed for them. Things aren't perfect, but they are getting better.

2) We are winning the war in Iraq. How? We're winning the support of the population. You cannot occupy a country against its will. It won't work. Eventually your control will collapse. Occupation (or rebuilding) is a delicate balancing act of political and military might.

Now, while I might not agree with the President, I do respect the ability of the United States Armed Forces. They need time to do what needs to be done. Troop drawdowns? No. But we do need to look at the overall strategy and make sure we're coping with the changes that we're seeing in the Terrorists' strategy.

A good indicator has been the movement of focus of attacks from US and Coalition personnel to civilians. They're aiming at softer targets more and more. Only the hardcore groups are still trying to take out US soldiers. It's not an easy thing to do. Also, in the last three months, I've stopped hearing reports of "insurgent" casualties. That's because the number of open-sight attacks have dropped off. They've changed their tactics yet again. They're no longer even letting themselves be visible. Their numbers and strength and financing is starting to dwindle.

Please don't allow the US to withdraw. Do not form an opinion based on the facts that some people want you to hear because they've already formed their opinion. Take a look at the reality of the situation. Is it bad? Yes. But it IS getting better, and we've been there long enough to start to win this war. And it can be won still.

Would I rather the troops be home? Yes. But we're getting there.

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Now, as to the talk about China and India and the global economy, some of you are correct, but only barely. China is a growing child in the global markets. We have a gigantic trade deficit with them, but its for a number of reasons. One is because of our deficit spending. Another is that we're no longer producing goods that are being exported. Finally we do not have the cheap labor pool that is available to such a large and relatively undeveloped nation.

While we are losing some ground in our respect and parts of our humongous role in the global economy, we are still the leaders of the free world by a long shot. It could easily be 20 years before China can even START to match our economic and political power. China is just beginning to flex its muscles. India is also a VERY loyal ally of the United States. They depend on us unilaterally.

As to the Russians.. well, you already know my answer there. They're leaning back toward a totalitarian state, and they'll continue to run the circle. It is popular for people to bring them up as a "return of the threat" type of villain.