Is Terran giving up on Air??

I think you should wait with this conviction. Blizzard has a lot of surprises for us I think.

 

nobody ever used terran air anyways this doesnt bother me

 

Nobody ever used Terran air anyways!??!?! Are you kidding?

 

Viking, Banshee, Predator, Battlecruiser; yeah they have totally given up on air :

 

I bet if they had made the viking sleeker, people wouldn't be complaining as much. It looks like a clunky scv with guns, and if you saw the in-game scene of the new DT and how it pwns the viking? ... yea that was pretty pathetic. But yes, it's true i miss the goliath, so I'm being pretty vehement against the replacement, and vitriolic about any potential shortcomings of the viking. So I guess i'm being pretty unfair, but the goliath was such a versatile unit, and missiles + Charon boosters devastated.

My question is, if the predator's attack is only 4 dmg, and the attack speed is normal, thats like a corsair with hardcore lag. I don't see how it can do any damage. Especially against protoss ships with shields. But i will say, that if its attack blocking abilities can block the phoenix's overload ability, that might be interesting.

For all the changes Blizzard made to the Terran units, i don't think they gave up on air. Not by a long shot.

 

I think now there are more specialist units than before, the wraith was more a general purpose flyier... and now we have banshee (ground) and viking (air)...

 

The Wraith was a Air superiority fighter, it´s Ground attack was annoying at best. In the SC Beta you even had to research Ground attack for the Wraith.
The viking is specialized for 2 Roles just not at the same time.

 

air superiority has generally been the edge for the victor in almost any war since aircraft were introduced.

I don't think any of the factions are giving up on air.

 

I suppose that's all correct. But don't you think its a little insane about Viking? I mean you have few second lag between switching modes, and that leaves huge chunk in power difference........ I think not many can understand what I'm saying so I'll take an example.

Ok so to the battlefield, you are raising a huge army against Protoss main base. If you win the battle, Protoss is most likely to GG. However, if you loose, your multies will be in deep trouble. So with that said, you are mainly focused on ground attackers because the fact that Protoss has already made many advancements such as Twillight Arcons. You did bring couple of Banshee and BC, but you decided to spend money for Predator on Viking, since you can both protect ground and air.
So with that in mind, you are marching your troops, and as expected, Protoss responds with huge ground units. Now, with huge army battling another huge army in wide plain, not much can be done other than SCV making couple of turrets, and microing isn't really your specialty. So you immedatly seige your tanks and ready your Thors and Marines. You also was careful to make Vikings into ground unit to further support the Tanks and Thor. The battle was going well. With few Arcons already down, and with Nomad flying around, you could easily detect the mighty DT, and Zelots cannot take the overwhelming firepower. You were carefull for Marines to target only Immortals, since Tanks will not affect it as much. And with such huge army fighting, the Protoss didn't even think about the blinking Stalkers. However, from the sidelines apporaches several Pheonixs few Warp Rays, and of course, the mighty MotherShip. Marines were nowhere strong enough to take on the group, and they were already handful with several Zelots, since Immortals are all but gone. Since the ground seems to be winning, you switched several Vikings into air to help out the BC and helpless Banshees. Banshees also went into cloak, of course. As the Vikings began to switch, Several Phase Prisms came into view, and from the powered ground came few group of Zelots. Although tied at first, there wasn't enough Marines left to support the Thor and Seige Tanks. What was left of Vikings were either ignored for smashed to make way for heavy weapons, and with quick motion, Zelots apporached the two most expensive ground units that Terran possessed. You ordered couple of Vikings to turn back into the ground the support, which was right thing to do. However, because of the delay, few tanks were already smashed. By the time Vikings have landed, Pheonixes immedatly used overload ability plus MotherShip took out TimeBomb, which slowed down Viking's missiles sufficiently, and BC took heavy damage. By the time Vikings have finished off Zelots and rose back up, there was no BC to protect, and WarpRays were now concintrated on finishing off Nomads. WIthout the support fighters, you just could not go on, and noticing this, Protoss fleets have been ordered into retreating. Now you started to retreat your force as well, fearing yet another rush by WarpRays from the rear of one of your newest multi.

Well, I think I went little overboard and passed few logics here and there, but I think that kind of explains what I think will happen. Correct me plz if I'm wrong.

 

Im no expert not by a long shot but it seems like the protoss force you described cost alot more than the terran force you described which meant the terran force lost because it got overpowered not because the viking switch was to slow. The way i think about it is if you had a pure Viking force it would be better than a force that was spilt 50/50 between ground and air firepower because you wouldnt know what your enemy would send at you the vikings could adapt alot better than a group of half siege tanks and wraiths (or take your pick of anti air and anti groud) because the vikings could become purely ground or air or split depending on whats needed where as the half and half would need to spend to have equal firepower in both air and ground that the vikings can chose between.

As for the terrans in the air i think it will really depend on what the predator can both offensively and defensively it its good at atking it will be just like the corsair for AA if its good defenively it can protect the battlecruisers and vikings so they can get the job done if its bad in both the terrans might have a porblem but then again they will still have the nomab for the shield and the battlecruiser for raw firepower.

 

@LordofAngels: That seems like a proper scenario and I don´t see a problem with it... expect maybe that you didn´t let the other Terran units use their abilities. No Yamato? No EMP? Vikings are supposed to be deployed in advance thats the "hook" when using them. just like how Stalkers are crappy is you don´t use blink with them.

 

I see all your point about my scinario, but I was just looking at grand sceme of things.... also, I didn't use any magic period, except for the shield ability that Nomads are so much known for. However, other than that, I didn't use much because the magical ability is to be changed.
Notice that I didn't use Twilight Arcon's feed back on Nomads nor BC, which could drastically destroy them while emptying out their magical powers. I also didn't use MotherShip's Cloak ability to cloak everything, as well as Planet Cracker to attack Thor and ground units..... not to mention High Templar's Psy storm and.... whatever replacement Statis Field is. So if I put magic into the field, It will be Terrans that will be most likely to be effected more drastically, because of the field of terrain that the battle was being held and the raw power of Protoss units. And I wasn't even using Blink. Good players could've easily used blink to sandwitch the terran position, or target Thors, whom are very slow to turn. Also, I didn't even use Collasus, which could've destroied Marines before Immortals were destroied. I just wanted to take the example for what I think of as Viking's weakness.... and also, even though Protoss's loss was severe, Terrans took even more damage, and they've also let MotherShips go scot free, as well as WarpRays. Meanwhile Seigetanks and Thors were pretty banged up and Viking losses were severe too. Although Protoss might've lost many units, Protoss's Phase cannon ability, as well as well used MotherShip, can easily defend the position and devise the offensive plan.... while BC down, it will take longer for Terrans to defend the bases, and eventually leading to the loss.

Also, I'd like to point out that this was just one instance. Do not get all naggy because of me using a bad example. And I was trying to prove a point that Viking's transformation wasn't a good idea for Terran, not saying every Terran vehicle sucks. The scenario could've been opposite, with right use of Yamato, Plasma... whatever that is called, and EMP, Terrans might've whoooped Protoss's ass pretty bad. However, I didnt' use magic at all because it will make the battle inconclusive upon trying to prove my theory of Viking's transforming time. I'm sure I can think of number of "what ifs" that favors Terran, but I just choose this scenario because it reflexed on how slow Viking's transforming could be in turn of battle.

 

The advantage of the Viking is not anything to do with switching support in mid-battle. You can do it, but that's not their forte'. What you really use Vikings for is penetrating unspecialized defenses: landing next to sieged tanks, lightly defended cliffs, workers. Anything that doesn't have a dedicated defense that you can take a swipe at before retreating.

 

What do you mean? Of COURSE the Terran gave up on Auir. After all, the Protoss did.

*DA DUN TISH*

 

it is air you idiot, please buy new glasses, ackbar said

 

^ Doesn't know when I've made a joke ^

*DA DUN TISH*

 

hehehe, flaming in the name of ackbar, that's a good one.

it's like: "you are such an asshole!!"... ackbar said

 

I think have greate air support, they have the predator who can intercept missiles! Thats an awsome feature.
They still have the battlecruiser, and the viking is good

 

How did terran give up on air? The recieved an air to ground specialist, and air to air specialist, the BS is back, and more units maybe to come. From what I can see, rather than give up on air, terrans have separated tasks for units to handle in different situations, which I'm all for.

 

I suppose its really good argument that I'm making. But although everyone have a great opinion about Terran air units, I am still not convinced, because Vikings especially isn't a good replacement for Valk, which was indeed "master of the sky". Of course, sairs kind of did the same role for Protoss, but not the same. 4 Valks can work in same efficiency of 12 sairs, and perhaps more depending on the situaitons. And because of Valk, Terrans can freely use BC and other tactical aeral strategies. I'm sure I'm not speaking for everyone here when most people perfer Wraith as air support fighter, which Predator replaced and more, such as intercepting missiles and projectiles like many say.

However, in the exteme cases of air combat, don't most Terran users deply about 3~5 Valk as well as Wraith and BC?[I kinda forgot Science Vessel, but I'm still counting that in my equation.] Also, there if few places where Wraith just will not hold, like Guardian/Hydra/Overlord combo, Sair/Carrier/Arb combo, and ..... well, Valk/BC/Vessel combo..... with many, many more possibilities where Wraith or its replacement Predator will not be able to fit in. In such extreme cases, Valk was used to easily fend off the attackers, and because of that, both Zerg and Protoss mainly nowadays use ground with air accompaniment against Terrans, which Terran uses air with ground accompaniment to fight for the most part. With Valk gone, and no one to replace or fill its spot, Protoss's new air units will dominate the sky.

Also, alot of people are not counting Zerg into their equation. I can only guess on this, but since blizzard showed us Banelings, it is likely that Zergs will use more explosives other than Scourages and Infested Terrans. Also it is high possibility that they made another evolution for Mutalisk, or made another air combat fighter besides Scourage and Mutalisk. With that in the equation, Vikings will not be able to support all that firepower.

Also, I think somone mentioned about Vikings being able to sneak into ecomonics of enemies and assult. However, there is few things that I think was overlooked. First and formost of all, Vikings are very, very noticable. They take their precious time to transform, and sometimes, enemies are ready by the time Vikings are attacking the economy.
Also, there is many defense that can counter Vikings. Terrans can always use Planetary Defense, which they probably have in their main and their most precious multies. And I think Predator can finish off the job before the Vikings turn into ground mode. Also, if they dont' care, they can just get come SCV in the command center, fly it, then use Banshee. Either way, Vikings just have to retreat with leaving little or no damage. Protoss isn't that much vulnerable either. Attacking Pylons dont' work that much anymore, thanks to Phase Prisms. It is high chance that Protoss users will have one or two Phase Prisms where it is more likely to be assulted. Also, Probe isn't that bulky anymore, thanks to Blink ability of Stalkers. They can just blink away, and WarpGate also gives advantage of summoning DT or Zelots to immedatly defend the base. Also, there is Phase cannons that can move to good location to unleash its fires on. With that said, I highly doubt Vikings are any good for assulting either.

Well, I'm sure I'll get alot of debates about this, but I think people are overestimating BC because of its Yamato and ..... whatever that Plasma thing is...... Sure, BC can now fire consecutive lasers at the opponent, and sure they are pretty tough... but BC cannot do much alone.... just like how Carriers are so easily downed by enemy fighters, BC are downed easily by air units. I think the high and mighty BC can fall easily to the prey of WarpRays, even with Yamato, you can only down one vessel at a time, so before you can down all with BC, it is very likely that WarpRay will finish it off.... and considering each BC now has to be upgraded sepearately, it will cost more to keep it in the air. Also, if Pheonixs use Overload ability, BC will be busy fleeing from them. Also Vikings and Predators can easily down BC without the cheap tricks..... and for Twilight Arcon and Nomads, BC is very easy target to destroy.... of course, with help of few extra units...... also, if Immortals are patroling around keypoints, it won't do any good with BC because of its "raw power", as someone mentioned it. Immortal's hardened shield will activate and will drag the battle on, while WarpRays or Pheonixs are coming to finish BC off. BC isn't that good alone...... and compared to MotherShip and Carriers, BC isn't that much of "raw power" to begin with.... before you argue, think about how much Carriers and MotherShip can give to the base, then compare that to how much damage that BC can give to the base in the same time.

Sorry about spelling mistakes... I'm sure that I made alot, especially on units