Is Terran giving up on Air??

Warp Ray, Phoenix, and Carrier is the lineup for Protoss.
I don't see the Viking, Predator, Battlecruiser lineup being muscled around. Protoss air in Starcraft was pitiful, but players just played around it. The Corsair in Broodwar was a welcome addition to a painful gap in the Protoss lineup.

If the Terran lineup had gaps, and I'm not sure it does, a little balancing can make it up.

Vikings seem to me to be a very powerful midgame flyer from a building that also produces the heavy metal. That's a complete setup there, from just one building. I don't see Phoenixes making mincemeat of Vikings.

 

and yet, it probably will. Also, don't forget that Vikings need armory/research to be used in air. So Predator, BC, Viking lineup will be muscled around, and that is what I'm trying to prove. I think I said it enough of times to everyone...... if anything that Viking is not, it isn't a good additional support fighter.
Also, if there will be balancing done, it is likely that Terrans will be balanced in air. Viking is just a little something in the mix, but Banshee, Predator, and new ability of BC will be on the issue table for balancing. Balancing will weaken already pretty much weak lineup..... if Viking is too strong, it is also likely they will get rid of Predator's intercept missile ability..... or vice versa. Terrans have overall powerful units, excluding Viking, but they dont' have enough fighter to support that. While Protoss has more usefull WarpRays and Pheonix..... and possibly more to come as the Protoss's arenal is complete. Also with that said, Protoss has yet another heavy-class ship, MotherShip along with Carrier. This will also enable just MotherShip/Carrier rush, which will be strong even without Pheonix's support....... you are well aware of Viking's missiles will probably be affected by timebomb....... and Predator can only intercept so much..... with 8 intercepters per 1 Carrier, the Protoss will own unexpected Terran users in air before a single Yamato was fired.... that's what I think

 

Well with most games lasting less than 20 min I dont think we will se many if any Carrier Mothership rushes.

 

Welcome to the forums Ower8x!

Blizzard doesn't know what they're talking about when they tell us we'll only have 20 minute games. The majority of even 1v1 games between matched opponents last about 40 minutes. They're saying that SC2 will have longer matches than SC1, really. They're pretty much talking about tournament games, etc. which no one but the pros and Koreans care about.

 

the viking is suppose to be anti air when its in air mode of course

and there is the predator aka copy-off-from-star-wars

also who can forget our capitol ship, the battlecruiser?

and no im not trying to be sarcastic here

but in my opinion
goliath > viking

why?

goliath was killing air from the ground and most air has horrible ground attacks (wraith and scouts)
goliath also did pwnage damage with all upgrades and the range was too good to be true

screw viking, goliath ftw!

 

nice sig terrangod

goliath hell yeah my favourite terran unit by far, i love mechs

 

I'm new to this forum, so I didn't look at the previous 4 pages of discussion, but my views on terran air is this:

Vikings are a nice early form of terran air power. They aren't a supreme anti everything unit. They get nice increased damage versus "light" armored units and their air form isn't that bad. It's slower than the protoss phoenix but almost as strong in terms of AA power. In the end, it pwns the goliath on the ground, but the goliath is more powerful in air fights.

Banshees are a new branch of terran air. It's the first terran plane that could really take out ground targets. It's lack of AA makes it not really part of an AA fleet.

Predators were reported (from blizzcon only) to be not that strong. Their main power is the ability to destroy missiles coming at them, and from Karune, hopefully they'll soon be able to stop lasers too. This way they can stop enemy fire while battlecruisers and vikings take everything out.

Cobras are just reaaaallly strong. They pretty much kill armor. According to Phreak, a person from blizzcon. They start out with 10 attack with a 25 attack bonus against "heavy" armor. That's a 35 damage versus ALL planes. Also, every upgrade gives them 5 extra attack, so when upgraded 3 times, they do 50 damage to planes!!!!! That's a huge amount. That kills the goliath in AA. 5 cobras could take out a battlecruiser in like 6 seconds when upgraded.

So, the predator, viking, cobra combo really kills the wraith, banshee, goliath combo. It also gives terran new abilities like the "transformer" aspect as well as the stopping missiles abiltiy. So, terran totally did not give up on air, they expanded.

 

welcome to the forum

i have to say thats one hell of a first post

 

Dude... I disagree with your point on Vikings totally...
The mobility is increased since they can just fly up on a cliff and land...
Takes a few seconds to transform is all.. If you're prepared it's all good.

 

hmm, wait, you disagree with the mobility?

It's true that the "drops" are just as effective as a normal drop. But the mobility is increased as it can fly to a battleground and land verus having to walk around everything. And players could also choose to have a stronger AA or Ground to Ground Army based on what the enemy has.

 

hehe thx
anyway goliath isnt completely mech
they are actually marines (?) in them using it

 

What naive claims, the vikings a much better AA than the wraith and more tactical than the goliath, and as the same power at ground.

Predator is also devoted to AA and the banshee is GTA superior than the wraith and the battlecruiser.

The new Terran air is far better than the old one.

 

Even before, although the Terran didn't have the actual ships, Goliaths were more than capable of taking Air superiority. Goliath > all

 

Goliath sucked ass especialy vs zerg 10 dmg vs mutas and being outranged bi a guardian(without charon boosters)=sucks

 

Goliath sucks for AA vs a good player, considering its an equel battle.

Vs terran, air + tanks > goliaths

Vs toss carriers + goons/zealots > goliaths

They were stupid, and you can consider yourself lucky if you get 1/2 of them to shoot when the enemy comes.

Vikings has all the strenghts of the goliath on ground, and is a much better anti air.

 

vikings is definitely better than goliath on the ground. but I say they are NOT better AA. They can compete, but in the end, upgraded goliaths are really good anti air. In pro matches, goliaths are always pumped to kill carriers. 5-10 of them can be quickly built and can take a carrier out in like 2 volleys. The tanks/vultures should take care of the dragoons, which is why protoss need to tech to arbiters/get some advantage to win this matchup.

From blizzcon, it was reported that even though vikings look strong (since we see a group take out a battlecruiser in 2 volleys), they are actually quite weak. In a group, they're pretty good, but so are goliaths in a group. In the end, it comes down to damage, and goliath wins that.

If we compare JUST goliaths and vikings, we can conclude that vikings have ton more mobliity and handle themselves well on the ground, but as AA, goliaths are a bit stronger. However, since we're talking about Terran Air overall, the old terran only have Wraiths and Battlecruisers versus the New battlecruiser, Cobras, and Predators. These 3 easily take over wraiths and battlecruisers, esp. the cobra.

 

Vikings could be considered better AA since they can´t be outmaneuvered like goliaths. According to the "fluff" that was the point, dedicated GTA is a bit wierd since Air has a intherit advantage against Ground. Goliaths had to be extremely strong because they would have been useless otherwise.

 

I'm really glad to see all the opinion about this. This almost makes me inferior for suggesting the forum discussion in the first place. However, I do disagree with few remarks.

First and formost....... some people are rudely disgreeing without much backbone support. If that is how you would want to post, please do not ruin it for everyone. I'm not saying that all of you were, infact, I learn everytime I open up this thread. This is really giving me alot of information about the Terran units, and I really appriciate it.

Well, with that matter settled, I would like to comment that what you call "seconds" I would call it, "One huge mistake." A second can decide who wins. And just like how Seige Tanks's seige delay proved to be bothersome, so will be the Viking.

I know its getting old, but I'll take example once more. Imagine you are a protoss commander, who is sending in units to bombard on the Terran Base. You kind of know that Vikings will show up. With that said, Sending Stalkers, make Vikings turn to ground, then blink off from range while WarpRays showing up to finish the job. "Seconds" is what really kill those Vikings. Each second counts in StarCraft, especially with good players, which I'm assuming all of you are.

I agree with the time limit. Sometimes matches end off being too short to take out MotherShip Statistical wise. And I'm definitely sure of this when I say you cannot take out MotherShip in 20 minutes while working on defense and offense. However, BattleCrusers takes just as long too, if not longer in some cases. Plus BattleCruser isn't good when not in numbers, and when versing support fighters in air...... BattleCruser just became alot worthless. Of course, against strong Capital fleet of Protoss or even against other BattleCrusers, BC isn't that bad. Infact, its superior to most capital ships. But what I was trying to infer was that BC isn't something to be relied upon entirely because of air raw power. Also, raw power of BC isn't anywhere near the total damage that MotherShip and Carrier gives...... its a reminder for all the BC fans out there that Viking isn't enough to support BC, and that was what I ment. I didn't mean to insult BC..... its one of my favorite units in entire Terran arsenal. If I insulted anyone I'm terribly sorry about that.

Also...... about the Cobra deal........ let's not try to talk about numbers here, since it is highly likely that the damage rate will be fixed. If Cobra has that much Attack, it is likely that it will have extremely low hp or extremely expensive..... afterall, it gives more damage than BC in longrun......
Also, I do believe Cobras cannot attack air. Please Correct me if I'm wrong. Cobra does look like it can attack air, but I think in the other fourms it was mentioned that Cobras cannot attack air. I'm sure Cobra issue will be clarified as the unit finalized..... for all we know, it might not even happen.

Also, I would like to disagree with many's opinion about Goliaths' ground power. It isn't strong as many, but in groups, it can be strong..... also, don't you think it is more likely for Goliath to be used as supportive instead of being group of its own??? All these talk about Goliath being weak isn't proven true, because it is used as supportive unit instead of main assult unit like Tanks or BC. Because of that, it does not have as much ground attack as Vikings on ground. However, it can be very flexible without transforming. I must say Terrans are not Transformers. Each second can determine victory or defeat for Terrans, same going for Zerg and Protoss. SeigeTanks, I can understand because of its massive power. But the fact that Viking replaced two of THE BEST AA units in the entire game is a little disappointing for me. I used to believe if they are going to make SC2, they are either going to keep Valk or Gol, but it didn't come out true. Even is SC2, I think Gol will still be strong, for both supporting Tanks and BC.

In the biased note....... I would be much safer to make old robots guard my tanks and capital ship than plastic transformers toy.

 

Okay first of all

Matches in SC1 didn't really take that long, even in pro game matches, I've watched many replayrs, and usually it's about 20-30 minutes long. Unless you purposely go for it, it'll be hard to go to tier 4 upgrades and units.

The point others are trying to make about the flexibility is that you can use your vikings as better anti air than goliaths because they won't be restricted to land obstructions. They can follow or retreat a lot easier than a goliath can, because there could be a river or cliff in the way. Also, I think your scenarios are very biased, because if the protoss has motherships, several zealots and immortals, a few twilight archons, warp rays and whatever, won't the terran have much more than vikings, a thor, several marines and like 4 battlecruisers???? They'll more likely have a few nukes and what not up their sleeves... Anyways, how do you know carriers and motherships will do more damage than BCs? Bcs have their abilities, and why are you comparing the mothership, a tier 4 unit, to a BC, a tier 3 unit??? Thats like comparing marine+tanks' damage compared to a zergling's

Anyways, You really wouldn't use vikings in a true battle that much. They would be much better for flanks. You other stalker/warpray scenarios are unfair, too. If they have stalkers and warp rays, wouldn't the terran have a few banshees/predetor with the viking's You make these scenarios play out like a newb terran player versus a pro protoss player...

It has been confirmed by players at Blizzcon that cobra has an aerial attack, and according to the gameplay video, the cobra has 130 life... Not really weak, is it? Cobra. 125 minerals, 50 gas, 35 sec, 2 food [C]. Does 10 base damage, +25 to armored, gains +5 to weapons, shoots on the move, hits ground and air. Thats 50 damage to most air units and ground units, while microing for a low cost, sweet. Range is about 5. cobra has 130 hp, range 5, weapon speed normal. Those are the stats as of recently =P

THats my two cents

 

from what people described, i think the cobra is too strong, 10 damage against non-armors is not weak by any means, so the bonus against armor should not be so big.