Joneagle_X Beta Question Thread

Surviving w/Medvac strat

Hey Joneagle,

I've been trying to perfect your marine/medvac strat, and the only difficulty I'm having is surviving past the first 5 minutes of the game (especially when the map places you far away from your partner). For instance, in my most recent match I was paired with another terran, vs. protoss/zerg. I had about 10 marines out and my base sealed off w/supply depots when they came down with zealots and roaches. I had just completed my starport, so no medvacs yet, and once they killed one of the depots it was gg (my partner tried to help with some reapers, but by the time he got there I was pretty much through, and they got pwned by the roaches anyway...).

So, I guess my question is: do you find the need to bunker up early on to survive the first rush? I've found that if my partner and I can withstand the initial surge, the strategy works perfectly because by that time you have 3 raxs pumping out marines + medvacs coming.

I tried to watch the video to see how you laid out your base, and I don't think I saw many bunkers - just depots/rax blocking main entrance, and marines behind.

Anyway, any pointers would be appreciated!

 

Could you check to see if Hallucinated Immortals get Hardened Shield? This seems like it would be a pretty awesome strategy to combine with Stalkers/Colossi and let the Immortals just be a meat shield.

 

@ DE.50

Hallucinated units do not take on the actual properties of the real units. Hallucinated Immortals do not have hardened shields.

@rightwinger,

Just a general 2v2 tip, you should try not to double up on one race because it allows your opponents to counter for a single strategy. Of course it's possible to win but pretty much only by sheer force. It would be pretty difficult for you to deal with two different opponent races.

However, as far as your M&M strategy that you're trying to pull off, you shouldn't need to build any bunkers. Building a bunker is just two less Marines that you could have produced. Once you build off your choke you should be able to hold anything they throw at you. Just continue pumping Marines while you get your Starport (you should have quite a few at your choke) and grab some Marauders at the same time. When I'm going M&M I usually go 2-3 barracks w/ Reactors and one with a tech lab to get Marauders so I have a decent balance of units.

Also when you see a large attack force coming you need to bring up some SCVs to repair the buildings in case they focus fire on your supply depot. You don't want them getting in!

Lastly, since you have to get a Factory to get your Starport it might not be a bad idea to grab a siege tank with siege as that will definitely cool any attempt at your main entrance.

Feel free to add me on Battle.net, I'm meisterx.sciiforums

 

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I was just randomly placed with another terran that game, so not much we could do. I'll be sure to add you on Bnet!

 

Don't have beta and couldn't find answers for my questions so: How does the bnet system work atm? is it dedicated servers that you choose from, random game joining (i heard it was based on skill random game joining but clarify plz), can you easily (without stupid lag like l4d2, where you need REALLY good internet to have a decent ping server) host games for you and your friends only to join?

Protoss: How does chrono boost exactly work? i know it shortens production time and it costs energy but what provides the energy, how fast does it recharge etc.

how much are void (or warp) rays actually used? probably a decent amount for structure damage but how does it fare on units? (might be ok on larger vehicles from what I've seen)

Also, for the warpgate, from what i've heard, these units come much faster than gateways, but basically can only move within the psi matrix? so if you warp in people using the warp prism, they have to be waiting within a pylon basically... and then you have to make your prism go into pylon mode.. and warp em in? sorry if im completely wrong lol.

Thanks!

 

From what I've heard, I think it is a person hosts and rolls with it. Even while streaming, I don't really have any ping issues. Everything seems pretty snappy. You and your friends shouldn't have a problem.

Chrono Boost cuts down the production and research time of a building. It costs 25 energy from the Nexus. At the start of the game, the Nexus is at 0 and, like usual, begins building from there. It recharges pretty much normal speed. I don't know the exact number, but I'd say it's around 1 energy every 2 seconds? Give or take

You don't see void rays used often unless they are doing some sort of rush or backdoor attack. Using them against units is kind of silly, unless you are hitting a BC or something. They die really quick.

You upgrade the Gateway to the Warpgate, then you can warp the unit in on any power field. They can move freely like usual after that. A common tactic is to place the Warp Prism behind their base and when the time is right, deploy it and start warping units in. Then raid their workers!

 

Let me expand on this. Chrono Boost is available right from the start of the game on the Nexus(which start with 0 energy, and has the max of 100). It cost 25 Energy(which takes about 40 seconds to gain), lasts 20 seconds, and can be cast on any of the players buildings, even on the other side of the map. It decreases the amount of time it takes to build a unit, or research an upgrade by 50% while the building is under its effect : A probe that usually takes 17 seconds to build will now take 8.5, Upgrading Ground Weapons Level One usually takes 160 seconds, will only take 140 seconds if you cast it one time on the researching building.

 

*BUMP* Don't forget to use this thread as your Beta question thread, guys! Don't just make your own thread!!

 

But this topic, even it's title so has the feeling of "your topic and you will be answering the questions". And that's cool if someone wants to ask you something. But if you want to ask soemone else something, and get their opinions on things . . . . that's why the their topics exist.

And I'm posting here cause yes I want to ask JonX (you smething). You know a lot about the beta .
As you are a zerg player (well I look at all your shiny Zerg pets on the forum ), how effective do you think a creep rush would be? Sure it probably can't be a tier 1 rush. But if you got a worker behind the enemy base and build a hatchery and then used creep tumors to extend the creep into the enemies base. And then use mobile units + the speed on the creep to rush and overwhelm the enemy base.

Would that be a viable mid to late game rush. Assuming you have survived all the early rushes that always happen. Or would this type of rush just be very expensive for the results is produces?

I'm not in the beta yet. But when I eventually play SC2 (which knowing my luck will be retail) I will be mostly a Terran/Protoss player. in saying that, my above mention rush I've read alot about it being used and want to get your thoughts on it. Do you think it's a good idea?

 

Soooo, I must say that Jon is a Terran player only. Never saw him play Zerg. ;-)
I am a Zerg only player, and let me tell you, never heard of that tatic, nor does it seems viable. With Nydus Worm costing a lot less than a Hatchery, building in a fraction of the time, and spiting out instantly hundreds of units, why should anyone would try to sneak a hatchery near an enemy base, build a Queen, and start to spawn creep tumors instead of Larvae?

 

Thanks Marcus. .
I just heard that tactic a lot and wanted an opinion on it. it does sound hideously expensive when compared to the alternative you stated. And rather pointless too.

 

The heaviest use of Creep I've seen has been against Protoss players early. It gives Zerglings an advantage of Zealots. I haven't really seen any more creative uses than that.

You can't really use the Overlords for Creep against Terran because they'll kill your valuable overlords. And using the Creep tumors requires exposing your Queen to danger which isn't a great idea.

 

Well I've never used it effectively, but Artosis has
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT10YAs7hTY&feature=channel

Though I find it quite risky to let all these overlords hanging around, but it may be beneficial in the end for faster movement/regen.

 

Jon, the Queen only needs to create one Tumor. That Tumor is able to build another Tumor for free, and so on and so forth.

Jon, what do you think of the Queen's Transfusion ability? Do you think they should change it with something else?

What do you think of the high Tier units of all the races?

 

Transfusion is great against rushes. You can give health to your spine crawlers and extend it out. Just gotta make sure your Queen doesn't get surrounded.

And the last question is kinda general... which units?

 

If you use your Queen right (constantly spawning larvae), you will never have enough energy to use tranfusion. It is expensive on energy (50) and heals to little (125hp). Perhaps if you have 2 Queens it could be used. I'd rather have another kind of ability.

 

High Tier ones, so Colossi, Mothership, Carrier, Thor, Battlecruisers, Ravens(are they that high tech?), Ultralisks and Brood Lords.

Same here. There is almost no reason to save the energy for Transfusion.

 

@ Marcus,

In a 2v2 when you're getting nailed hard by two Z players that one Spine Crawler with Transfusion is going to save your life.

@Lurkers,

Colossus is great as a push-back against Terran but isn't as effective as the Reaver used to be for things like economic raids. It doesn't just wipe infantry by itself. But it will do some serious damage. Since it can be countered by air that's usually what I go: Vikings.

The Terran Battlecruiser is great against pretty much anything, destroys Thors, Marines, anything on the ground except for Hydras. Hydras do quite a bit of damage to Terran air. But with armor upgrades the Battlecruiser can take on anything except Warp Rays and Carriers.

On to the Carrier which is an OP Tier 3 unit. The Protoss have the most diverse tier 3 air arsenal and they use it to devastating effect. Allowing Protoss to get to these units is a very, very bad idea. And since the Protoss can simply go High Templar (the only splash anti-air attack in the game other than the Raven) massing air against them isn't gonna work very well.

I think Brood Lords are OP too simply because they have 300 HP. They can't be killed by anything on the ground. Your only hope is to out-mass vikings on them which is sometimes viable when they're spending all their gas on Brood Lords.

Ravens are meh. The auto-turret is useful against Mutalisk and for supporting units, and it's detection is a must but I don't always get this unit. I mostly use scan for detection if necessary.

 

@: Queens: People tend to forget, you're not LIMITED to 1 queen per hatchery, it's 2 food, and 150 minerals, so if you wanted to use them for more then Spawn Larva(which after awhile even just spamming that allows you to do other things...sense the energy slowly but surely regains faster then the spawn rate of the eggs on the hatchery) you could essentially make another to, as Jon mentioned, heal spine crawlers or other units with a decent amount of health.

However, I disagree with Jon if he finds having only 1 queen out and having 50 energy to prevent a intense rush will save you. It is 'mandatory' to have always 1 queen spamming spawn larva on a hatchery(early game scenarios if you only have one, or 2 for that matter) - and by the time you have enough to do more with that energy pool, while keeping up spawn Larva, it's past the point of what I personally consider an early rush...it'd be more less close to a mid game attack at that point.

@Brood Lords: Jon, I too used to think Brood lords were OP - but if you take into account their speed, flanking and out maneuvering your opponent is and option. The worst case scenario is if the Zerg blocks you into your base, and pelts with you broodlings and you have no air to mirco them down with. Because if you approach from the front, the broodlings will continue to keep you far enough away to not attack them directly.

@ Psi-storm: Actually Jon, your opinion on Psi Storm being valid as a form of Anit-air I find selective as to the opponent. An example is I move my Mutas directly over your army hence if you Psi storm there...despite if I move out of it or not...you'll lend up hitting your army too, its' best used to push the enemy too where you want them, or if you hold them along the front line it is painful on the enemy then.

@ Carriers: Players mistaken Carriers commonly for a don't use, or Spam all Carriers type unit. They are actually best used to compliment your force, and support them not in a mass, but as 2-4(varys upon each match) - as a Zeg player, I'm shocked how one of the best counters to Mutas is indeed Carriers, and players have yet to realize it or are too afraid to tech to it. I believe my test with a friend had a 3:1 ratio of mutas to carriers matched the cost for cost...and the Carrier won that fight with only shields lost, still full health. - In other words, Carriers eat Mutas like no other protoss unit...less the player stupidly sits in Psi Storm ;]

 

Jon, what is a good build order to get an early ghost out? I want to get a ghost out by the time toss is getting about 2 Immortals for a more effective M&M push, in addition to being able to take out some sentry forcefield spam.