legalizing soft drugs?

To be honest, I've never heard of someone dying from alcohol poisoning due to hindered gag reflex because they smoked weed...and I've been in the Netherlands for a while too and haven't heard of it. I have heard, however, of people drinking so much that it stops their gag reflex. But before I decide where I stand: Is there a source you can give to support your point Itza?

 

You can't decrease the use of hard-drugs by legalizing soft-drugs.

The only way you are going to decrease the use of hard-drugs is by engaging every part of the trade simultaneously. These are the basic producers (usually poor farmers), the refiners (usually international criminal organizations or domestic criminal organizations), the distributors (usually domestic criminal organizations from the boss all the way down to the street dealers), and the buyers.
Each part needs a separate action to fix the whole situation. The key element is that each part has to be dealt with at the same time. If they are not then the problem will continue.
For the basic producers a combination of humanitarian aid and development is needed
For the refiners a combination of military and law enforcement is needed since many of these organizations are well armed and well trained militias.
For the distributors law enforcement is required.
For the buyers law enforcement is required. This should be either a harsh fine or lots of community service (for those who cannot pay the fine). Everyone knows that the anti-drug educational programs don't work well. Those that have no interest in trying drugs wont and those who are weak will.

 

people can die by drinking too much alchohol, people can't die from smoking too much marijuana. i really don't see how you can think that marijuana should be banned and not alchohol.

paragon, for alot of the growers of coca, it is there only income (most people chew it in south america), you have to assualt the international organizations that the usa government has so turned a blind eye to in the past...

 

i dont think you even read what i wrote because i already discussed those two things

 

i was agreeing yet said the work should be focused on the international groups.

 

@ Nikzad. It's not a hindered gag reflex. No matter whether you've drunk too much alcohol or eaten rotten food, your body will throw it up to try and get whatever's causing the harm out of your system. The gag reflex is different as it's there to stop you from choking. The reason you've probably never heard of marijuana induced alcohol deaths is probably because it would be fairly rare, what with marijuana being illegal and all, and probably because the deaths would technically be recorded as alcohol related deaths. I haven't got a source for all this, only several years of PDHPE teachers telling us time and time again whenever we cover the 'Drugs' and 'Lifestyle Risks' topics. They basically tell say that as long as you know it's naturally grown marijuana, not hydroponically grown, which is almost never going o be the case as hydroponically grown marijuana is cheaper, produces a larger crop and sells for the same amount so is basically all dealers will ever sell, and as long as we don't combine it with alcohol, for the reasons I've already stated, we're not really at risk.

@ overmind. I've already told you why marijuana should remain illegal. Although it's the alcohol poisoning that physically kills the person, it's the marijuana that causes the alcohol poisoning. Therefore it's the marijuana that's doing the harm. If marijuana was legalised and alcohol was illegal, not only would individual sellers be growing their own hydroponically-grown marijuana for their own profit, but people would also be trying to brew their own alcohol, which can be equally as dangerous. Besides, if there was a worldwide poll over which should be legalised/remain legal, I'm fairly sure than alcohol would win hands down.

 

i havent heard from it either, and it is legal here and i know more than 20 people who use it and drink at the same time

 

Well that just proves that people would do both at the same time. Also, chances are the amount of alcohol they're drinking isn't enough to kill them if they don't throw up, not to mention that with it being legal there and all, people wouldn't be going overboard but if it was legalised here, chances are almost everyone will.

 

note that it is not legal to have more than, i believe it is 10 grams marijuana with you at any given time

 

I doubt that'd be enforced though.

 

     actually it is enforced quite good, diffcult though it may be

 

It'd be near impossible for it to be enforced. I don't see how it could be done, nor do I see how you'd know it's being enforced well.

 

by the fact that i know a lot of people that do marijuana and they get checked regulary

 

How so? And how would the cops know it's only ten grams? And how would they know that's the only stash they have on them? And so on and so forth.

 

how do the cops there know that people don't have any on them?

achohol kills.
marijuana does not.
alchohol is more likely to kill when combined with marijuana (according to you)
which sounds worse?

i would like to see a reference for the facts that have.
i have never heard of marijuana being related to alchohol poisonings, i've only heard of either recreational legal drugs (such as party pills or hard drugs (meth, ecstasy etc) causing alchohol posioning.

 

I'm going to say this one last time. Drinking x amount of alcohol will not kill you, but drinking x amount of alcohol with marijuana will. The marijuana causes the death.

I've already said, which is again evidence that you haven't been reading my posts properly, that I'm not getting this from any source, just from several years of PDHPE teachers telling us there's not really anything wrong with marijuana, it's only when it's either hydroponically grown or combined with other factors, like alcohol, that it's quite dangerous.

Also, just wondering, is there any way to measure the effects of marijuana on a person? With alcohol there's the BAC, but is there any equivalent for marijuana?

 

First of all, sorry ItzaHexGor, don't mean to argue with you again but its just a coincidence. Trust.

So there are no negative effects of solely drinking alcohol? It doesn't make you lose control? Drunk driving doesn't exist? You can't get addicted to drinking? People don't choke (and die) from their own vomit when drinking? Really?

Even if some astonishing number of automotive and poisoning deaths occur because of both marijuana and alcohol, its still inconsistent only to make one illegal. I mean, what are you saying, and what lines are you drawing? Its ok to use state force to ensure some more people don't die (supposedly), even though this same force can stop people from killing themselves if extended to other substances.


Personally, I think the onus is on state to prove enforcement is necessary, thats is, using physical force to confiscate property, fine or imprison people . I don't want people forcing and telling me what I can ingest, and I don't want to tell or force other people to conform to any other prescription. If taking a substance becomes a risk to other people by mixture of activities and situation THEN PROHIBIT THE MIXTURE, not the substances themselves. Drunk driving is illegal, drinking is not.

Also, there are few circumstances that I can envision where marijuana puts other people at risk. The only major one is driving, or certain occupations. Shouldn't we then investigate the dangers of mass automotive transit? It's a 'poison' because it causes many, many interpersonal deaths on its own. I can empathize with the argument that legalization my cause more deaths, but again, if your reasons for enforcment is to prevent deaths why isn't the government doing more?

 

drinking x amount of alchohol can kill you! you have never heard of people dying from alchohol that is not related to drug use? even if you just look at long time effects alchohol is much worse.

 

@ SmoothBore. Quote for me the places where I've said that excessive drinking isn't harmful, then argue the opposite. I'm not saying that alcohol isn't dangerous, but that alcohol combined with marijuana is even more dangerous. Marijuana can stop people's natural ability to rid themselves of excess poison.

@ overmind. That was a typo. It was supposed to be if drinking x amount of alcohol will not kill you, drinking x amount of alcohol with marijuana can. I slipped up because I've tried to simplify it so many times. Marijuana increases the chance of death.

Why not prohibit alcohol instead of marijuana? Great question, glad you asked. Why not take it up with your local council or state government and see what they say? According to you it would be an absolutely fantabulous solution. However, I'll save you the time and tell you that that's not the case. Alcohol will always be legal, just like cigarettes and all other harmful but legal drugs. Not only do they financially support the government, but taking them out of the system would have drastic consequences. People would try to make their own supply of alcohol, which is extremely dangerous, or roll their own cigarettes, which would also be extremely dangerous, etc. I'd be willing to stake pretty much anything on the fact that more people would rather have legal alcohol than legal marijuana. That's not to mention that legalising a hallucinogen is just ludicrous, especially when they'd be blowing it around in other people's faces. Second hand tobacco smoke is bad enough, second hand marijuana smoke would be much worse.

 

Itza - yeah my mistake, i meant ability to puke. gag reflex was just shorter
No offense, but without a credible source, I can't agree with you about the alcohol+marijuana stopping your ability to puke, since personal experience has taught me quite the opposite and many people I know would probably be dead if it was true...however, maybe your point has some validity when it comes to EXTREME consumption *shrug*