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Protests in America 0.o

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Rebel Head, Oct 9, 2011.

Protests in America 0.o

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Rebel Head, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. overmind

    overmind Active Member

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    But how? I tried to point out how unrealistic it is to try and change the system through the system when money is so ingrained in politics. What would you propose? Could it really be solved just from higher voter turnout?
     
  2. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    Its not easy, I will admit that, and its not an overnight fix like some people in occupywallst want, even if occupywallst is more successfull, it will take banks months, if not years to revamp their policies and procedures. Let alone, that most of that has to go before a banking committee in congress - and that, will take even longer. This country has a bit more urgent things such as a few wars, maybe even a few plots by outside factors to worry about.

    It has already started, politicians are only now limited to a certain amount of money from corporations, but guess what? Corporations found loopholes and ways to give better incentives to the potentially elected politician. People need to send nasty-grams to their politicians, dont believe that BS that they dont truly give a damn, i've talked to people who worked with reps, they read the letters, but only a handful get a reply ever.

    Sure, this demonstration may be super successful as far as DEMONSTRATING GOES.. But where is the central voice? the committee? the chairperson of the group? Its like a massive chief den with no warriors, or vice versa.

    If occupywallst wanted to get results, they need to split up corporations from politicians, that should be the biggest agenda, than there wouldnt be so many special interest groups and ****ty politicians voting for the wrong crap.
     
  3. Rebel Head

    Rebel Head New Member

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    And exactly whos bidding are they doing? Move on to the next candidate?! Bush and Obama had record low approval rates with no impeachment. And yet, despite the economical stability during Clinton's administration, he was impeached all because of a blow job. This statement is totally unrealistic.

    Revolution and any collective acts of deviance are healthy for a society that feels unhappy toward's its government's policies because it reminds the government that it has more to fear from its people then the people have to fear from its government. No voice? Excuse me but everyone has a voice. I should remind you that this country was founded thanks to revolution.

    I don't care what the media says, Obama's health care plan is a terrible idea. If you can bare to stomach the 2000 pages of legal language, you may notice how restrictive the plan is to insurance payers. Ill save time and just sum the plan up in short; it is the government's way of creating a monopoly for certain insurance providers.


    Did you also know that it is LAW that a corporation must maximize its profits for share holders no matter the cost. Yes, it was ruled in the Dodge v. Ford Motor Company case and the result was that any company which became incorporated had to operate its business to profit the shareholders, rather than the community as a whole or employees. It is often cited as embodying the principle of "shareholder value" in companies. This is extremely bad, and is why corporations are devastating to a society's wellfare; they suck up all the wealth, they put profit above human life and well-being, and eliminate healthy competition that would have otherwise benefited both the consumer and the average worker. Wal-mart was kicked out of Europe by organized unions because they were well aware of how destructive big corporations are to their economies that thrive off of competition amongst smaller "mom and pop" businesses.


    Other partS of the world? Don't you mean Rome? At any rate you are blaming occupy wall-street for other events they have nothing to do with :wacko:
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2011
  4. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    dyamn this thread has grown.



    Though there have certainly been a fair share of ****ish bankers and corrupt politicians, I don't think it's these two groups that are at fault. Instead, I'm going to go ahead and blame the common man instead. America is NOT a two-party system, but due to common culture people have stopped looking which candidate represented them most, instead focusing on the big two. It's not a representative democracy if you don't look which candidate represents you most. Protesting the so-called system is as easy as voting for any of the other parties. The system that people are protesting, that of the two-parties supported by the companies, does not exist, except in their imagination. The problem is that everyone believes it. Researching candidates would take two or three afternoons, but concidering US elections take a whole year and take up a lot of television time, this is probably a reductiton in research time. Maybe they can even implement something like the dutch stemwijzer, which allows you to easily select the party whose political views are closest to yours, which makes it possible to search among a large number of parties quickly.

    I don't have a clue how to start a public awareness campaign though. And it's kind of late.
     
  5. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson New Member

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    Yes you are. U.S. is not a democracy, it's a plutocracy. People with great ideas don't win. People with great campaign funds do. And when elected they do jack **** for the common folk, after all they are never going to get money from them, corporations on the other hand have plenty of money to spend on a politician and buying a politician is the best investment you can make.

    By the way if the government wasn't just a corrupt pile of **** all of those profits that the big banks continue to announce this year would go straight into the government coffers because the government pumped 1.5 trillion dollars into them. They should own the banks.

    Oh and I agree, banks and corporations aren't evil, they are just amoral. If screwing over the whole country results in a short term profit, they'll do it because their whole existence is based on maximizing their profits. That's fine as long as they get regulated but of course that is something that the government refuses to do (hmmm I wonder why...) allowing banks to gamble other people's whole lifes away.

    Banks aren't supposed to be hedge funds. If I was stupid enough to put my money into a hedge fund I'd demand more than just some lousy 2% interest.
     
  6. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    So low approval ratings over actions is what dictates impeachment? Your above statement is invalid. Clinton's impeachment has no reason to even be in this convo, try using Nixon as an example.

    I have no comment, this is correct. I agree it is a great way to check government, but when the 'people' speak of revolution, if its violent, it will not end well in this country.

    So you support insurance companies? The very same companies that rape the **** out of the American people? Isnt that counter to some beliefs in the Occupation movement? :wacko:


    Well thats unfortunate, the very same 'corporation' scheme that America thrived on (eliminating other business) is now super bad. Reality check, America and Corporations have been doing this for a while since the 1930's Our GDP wouldnt be where it is if we didnt have private businesses/corporations.


    No, not blaming, but its true that people see it work for other countries, so they will try it on theirs, and if they dont see progress fast, then they go crazy. OccupyWallSt and the movement in general is reciprocating the Arab Spring in every way.
     
  7. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    Last I checked, its a Democratic Republic. Which brings me back to my main point, the movement should focus on eliminating the money (corporations) from politics. (Im not going to hear this "you stated the problem, so wheres your solution" bs). Like most people on this forum who get into arguements, they are just stating a view, of course something may not be done, but hey, thats the internet for you and realism. Donating 10$ to a cause and 'liking' a facebook page isnt doing much, but niether is just battling over politics and societies stating opinions on a starcraft2 forums.

    So if the government owned all the banks, wouldnt that be even worse? Arent people always complaining how the government is always putting their hands in the cookie jar and dont like it. (Obama's healthcare plan)

    Amoral? True, but derp a derp. A corporation, like a country, is not out to make friends, they are out to meet their interest goals. Its the very essence of business in general, to maximize profit, there is no morality in the decisions, just money and profit.
     
  8. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    I'm happy you brought this up!

    Guess what America, the Democrats, the very politicians who work for the people, and the Republicans, those damn evil white old guys, voted on all the worse decisions as a combined house. Amazing what two completely different political parties who have separate political opinions can do when combined and unified.

    As for other other political parties go, not so sure on that one.
     
  9. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson New Member

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    That's EXACTLY what the movement is about.
    You are the worse kind of person because you agree there is a problem that has to be dealt with but when people go out and use legitimate means to resolve the problem such as peaceful protest you sit in your armchair and proceed to judge and criticize them.
    The only reason why there are so many hippies on that square and not 'normal people' like you is because 'normal people' like to talk the talk but not walk the walk.

    I am ashamed to admit: I am one of the normal people. I can't imagine living on a concrete floor in October for over a month, but at least I show gratitude and respect for the people who do it for me.
     
  10. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    Now to be fair, a lot of the floor is dirt, not concrete >.>


    And eliminating money from politics is as easy as not voting for the big guys. Thanks to internet, it's not like you have a shortage of information on other candidates. But nope, the average american has some sort of neurotic trait which prevents him from voting for any party except the big two, even many of those that protest what they call the two-party system for some reason vote for the two parties.


    What was that theory about chemicals in the water again? :p
     
  11. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson New Member

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    @ijffdrie: To be fair though I follow U.S. politics closer than the majority of Europeans and I have don't know anyone or anything that would not already be affiliated with the democrats or reupublicans. Yes it would be helpful to get out of the 2-party system or at least be able and replace one/both of the parties with another ones thus forcing them to behave but there is clearly a complete lack of infrastructure for other parties.

    That doesn't change the fact that the system is broken and I'd rather focus on fixing that first rather than just sending more different people there just to be bought again. Wolf-PAC looks promising but its still in its infancy.

    The bottom line is that we have people here who will willingly admit that there is a lot wrong with the U.S. political system and the political system in the world in general but at the same time they have a mouthful of bull**** to spew at the people who, UNLIKE THEM, actually go out and work on solving these issues.
    Way to go, losers.
     
  12. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    And what have you done? Have you done any protesting? Have you done nothing else than argue with me on this forum? Im not the worse kind of person, I can criticize all I want. I respect the fact they go out and excessive their rights, I dont respect the fact that they sit right outside CEO's and VP's houses and barrage them with bull****. I dont respect the fact that they are protesting at every corner, an opportunity for business because they deem is 'corruption and greed'. I dont respect the fact they block people and traffic and commerce for people who need to get to work so they can chant their stupid chants.

    Normal people have a normal life that has responsibilities day in and day out. Mothers, Fathers, Students, Workers.
     
  13. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    Theres a fine line of solving issues and just blabbering on about ****.

    I have yet to see anyone from any of the movements appear before Washington. Instead, all they like to do is have a mouthful of bull**** to spew at the people who are ****ing up the country, their problems and sob stories.
     
  14. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    oy, you two. Quit the swearing and the insulting. Little kids, such as me, use this forum as well.

    I don't think anyone here wants to hear a rant on the death of civilized discussion and its effect on the political system.
     
  15. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    Ijff,

    I probably am swearing a bit too much. I should cut back on it ^_^

    But this is a pretty heated discussion, and even though it may come off as going back and forth, we are both presenting arguements. The Lounge clearly states "Forum for the disscussion of all things that are serious and non-video game related. Get away from the games and immerse yourself in deep, meaningful conversations. Think critically and have some good old fashion debates with others."
     
  16. ijffdrie

    ijffdrie Lord of Spam

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    I know, and the discussing part is just fine, great and dandy. Been a bit since we got such a good discussion in here.



    Anyways, I'm thinking we're generalizing the protests too much here. They're not all good, but they're not all bad either. The wall street protests might be an organized movement, but most people who participate have their own ideas regarding the crisis, some more informed than others, some more radical than others. I agree that people are currently unnecessarily obstruction normal life. But I also agree that people are currently fighting for their beliefs in the correct way. These are not necessarily the same people. Though, again, it seems like it would be much easier to protest the current system by not voting for it next election.
     
  17. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson New Member

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    I am not going to swear anymore. He's just an idiot or a very ignorant person with very idiotic beliefs; That's all I wanted to make clear.
     
  18. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    Not voting would only hinder progress and leave those same old pasty white people in power. One good comment I read somewhere else was that in a few years, probably 5 - 10, most of the WW2 - Vietnam - Cold War era politicians will be out, and the new blood will be in. Young politicians who come from all over the US. But the old saying goes, the more things that change, the more that stay the same. They too, I believe, will either be bought out unless more tighter policies are set on interest groups (which hasnt ever popped up as an agenda in Congress) is done to seperate interest groups from politicians. From what I read, and what I have seen in the media, people are protesting greed, corruption and big business, hardly ever, have I seen from any movement, the agenda of bringing to congress, the seperation of money and politics.

    On another note, if corporation, bank and business reform is to take place, that can take months to accomplish. And even then, the system will most likely still favor profiting from people. I dont believe private banks and businesses should be owned and regulated by the government. Free market and private business is how this world makes money. If China came to its senses in the 1980's early 90's, than that must mean capitalism works (despite flaws).
     
  19. Shadow[E]

    Shadow[E] Moderator

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    And you're just a idealistic moron. At the end of the day, REALISM RULES THE DAY.
     
  20. Higgs Boson

    Higgs Boson New Member

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    Part of realism is that in the history of mankind nothing ever changed for the better without people going into the street and protesting. I bet you are the same kind of douchebag who would call the civil rights movement a bunch of lazy bums who's only purpose in life is slow you down on your way to work.

    Stick those thumbs really deep in, take a deep breath and sing lalalalalalala. That will do the trick.