Religion

I dont think i ever said that anyone was outright wrong... i only presented some.. what i found to be quite large flaws in some beliefs. I left it open to discussion and kept things as open as i could! :S.

 

Ahem, gentlemen, fellow gamers, if I may....

First of all, my dear friend dark, my feelings are not going to be hurt. I am not fragile and I have gained a lot of understanding in religion over the past few months, especially because I have been challenged on my beliefs a fair amount. I am as much a person as all of you, and I can stand on my own two feet, so relax, I am alright, I can debate this, and make my opinion known. As long as people hear me out I don;' care if they believe me. I justt want them to understand where I come from on this subject.

Religion is an interesting subject to me. I love talking about it, particularly becaus eit's so diverse. It's not rude, that I can see.. Theology, discussing veiws, knowing what a person believes; it's not rude unless you are trying to tell someone they are wrong and they believe BS.

As eon said, religion is based on faith, and not science. there are some facts behind religion, such as documented records and such, but a large whole of it remains "guessing", if you will. It is the trust ane belief of something higher up, a means of controlling people to do the right thing. People use the arguement of it being misguided all the time, and personaally i have seen religion corrupt and i understand this arguement.

But, as a religious person, I must disagree. I believe in God, and I believe if He chooses to reveal himself, he will. why would somethign omnipotent and omnipresent need to prove hiomselves to us? What would be the point? There are still people who will never believe. I believe in Him, because I chose to. not because I was born into this (though that is how it started) but because I truly believe this.

I know the creator of this thread is not trying to start a fight, he was merely challenging people to think outside their usual pespectives and see what he sees. But, I must disagree with this evidence, too. I am not saying it is not right. for all I know, God could not exist, I could be blindly following something. but, I also know better on certain arrays. In the end, religion is following what you believe and what you perceive to be the truth. Those who don't believe the same have every right to do as they please.

People try to sway others, and i think that is wrong, but that is not what this hread is trying to do, i don't think. So relax people. it's just a discussion. Remember, this is the internet. Winning an arguement on the internet is like the game of life: don't take it too seriously because no one wins in the end. Getting your ideas out there is the point of threads like these. And as long as everyone discusses it peacefully I see no issue in it.

 

Irrelevant. The question wasnt if god would do it, it was purely "what if" theory.

 

ah, I see, I read it wrong.
And I honestly don't know. It's the same kind of theory as if an unstopable force collides with an unmovable objesct. They would end up destroying each other because neither can give in.

 

Actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeKSfIL4efE

edit: You can see here why people strictly following logic bash their head against a wall when trying to explain christian god.

 

Heh, ty for getting that across, i was like naaaaooooo! they gonna close ma thread!.
But yeah back on subject.. May i ask if you believe in the concept of (i use this term loosely) 'Organised Religion'? or if you (dunno what faith you are ) believe that god who is said to be so understanding would indeed require that (talking about one religion here.. not generalising) you go to church and praise him every sunday? or face his wrath? And on the subject of 'sinning' i cannot seem to wrap my head around some of the stuff various religions try to stop mankind from doing, but claim to have extreme love and understanding for us..

I mean, for all i know you might not believe in going to church etc etc etc.. and i suppose its not my business. . Each to his/her own right? But another subject which is find slightly annoying is how various religions tend to take the whole 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God...' stance on things...

Opinions on that, people?

 

Yes indeed, Babmer.

I am catholic, and I say so strongly. Catholics get a bad rep for never worhiping and only picking this religion because it's the easy way out. But, I go to church every sunday. I believe organized religion is alright. It's easier to understand many confusing concepts when different people explain them in different ways. It helps you broaden your horizon and sometimes I go "oh, so that's what it means" or "oh, i can see that". But sometimes I do feel like soemthign doesn;t add up.

As for sinning, I, too, have been confused. But, I think people are doomed to sin. It's just human nature. I think God loves us enough to not mind. He knows we have flaws and knows that we, in ourselves are not perfect creatures. He understands we are weak. In all reality (beyond religion here for a secnd), humans are weak. sometiems people only fall to religion because they need something to believe. they want an excuse or something to tell them they will be forgiven for all wrongdoings. they sometimes want to blame other things like "Fate" and "destiny" and "God". but, I believe if someone truly believes, and truly doesn;t mean what they do, God will forgive them

But, there are some who don;t care. I think God and others will forigve that person, even if they are not sorry. Like if someone was hurting my friend i might kill him. Killing is a greivous sin, but if i believed soemone was going to kill my friend i would end their life without hesatation and feel no remorse or regret. In all, I think it's deeper for feeling sorry, it also has to do with what you believe is right. I think God can see what we believe, and forgive us for thinking wrongly.

And, on your last bit, everyone should be open and question religion. Religion can become orrupt and it's our job as believers or non believers to see whan somethign is going on and know where we stand on our own veiws.

 

Aye, but organised religion has a lot of blood on its hands..Crusades etc, look at all the suicide bombings and attacks done 'in the name of religion'. I know that they just use religion as an excuse for these actions, but dayum its caused a lot of wars, squabbles, etc. And if i remember my History... (ok this is probobly gonna be quite flawed ) Wasnt religion used around medievil times (when the majority of people/peasants couldnt read) to encourage people to give their land/monies! to the church? or face eternity in hell?.


Now, i know that these are the actions of mankind and not a 'God' so to speak, but Its things like these which really make me and many others, feel that a world where no religion existed would be, perhaps a much better place?

 

In response to the last post I believe that humans do not need just the excuse of religion to cause suffering and war. There are many other reasons for the same reason as was stated earlier (i forget by whom) that said that humans are predisposed largely to sin in this case violence. I mean look at recent times: what motivates us for war now? An ideal like believing in democracy. Patriatism, greed, racism, simple misunderstandings, cruelty and lets just face it almost anything.

While agree that religion in the past has been a major source of conflict in public, I believe that it is just that in public. The real reason for the crusades? the pope was afraid of all the kings and armies running around europe and killing each other. So what did he do he sent the problem away. Why did they have a second and third crusade? Greed. They wanted land and money and power if anything more than to "free" the "holy land" but yes there are those who hold to their convictions to the point of willingness to kill. I believe that that reaction is just a extreme example of what many do for their country. Many people are willing to kill and die for their country so is Patriatism then the single greatest cause for war?



PS: Keep in mind i am largely neutral on this subject i just love to debate so please if i say something that offends ignore it.

 

I already knew omnipotence was impossible, and I figured that out by myself.

But I never thought about omniscience, and you have a good point there for me, because I don´t get offended by ideas, and you just posted one idea (two actually), and you weren´t agressive with your words by any means. I think it is your idea alone that may sound offensive to many, not the way you want to discuss it.

Even though I´m atheist, I understand believers don´t need logic to support their faiths, just like TheWorker said. One can always say god is beyond logic. But I doubt one can prove your conclusions wrong.

 

Ok guys, it looks as though a fair few mods have been active within this thread already, so please focus on keeping it all under control. I'm going to watch over this thread closely, and I'm sure other mods will be as well, so in order to be as much as an impartial observer as possible, I'm not going to contribute. However, just so that you know where I stand, those of you who've seen me in the other religious threads would probably know this already, but for the new folk, I'm an Atheist to the bone. That said, I won't let it alter any actions I take on this thread. I love a good discussion about religion so I wouldn't want to see this thread get locked or deleted. Again, please focus on keeping it all under control.

EDIT: Keep posting rules in mind as well. There's a lot of over quoting, quoting the person right above you, etc, going on already so please keep that to a minimum.

 

im a roman catholic but i side on science....

k?

 

Just to add to what ItzaHexGor said. This thread was locked at one point I chose to unlock it because I didn't think the reasoning was valid expecially since we have had a few good religion threads in the past and also this seems to be civil while having a decent disscussion. Religion is an interesting topic and it can lead to some good and interesting disscussions and I would rather not hamper that. On that same token religion can also go very, very bad if given the chance. If that happens the same thing will happen to this thread as any of thread gone bad, it will dissapear. However, religion threads tend to only go bad because of one or two people posting something stupid, and we have much better rules for the people who cause those kinds of problems and I will not think twice about enforcing them here. The way threads stay open when situations like that occur is people choose to ignore the person and report them instead of responding and I encourage everyone to take that route instead of responding in kind. Finally, if anyone is offended by the nature of the thread and what it is disscussing feel free to PM me, but if there is no actual offensive comment, please just ignore the thread.

 

I got a little carried away before, I'm sorry.

The original name for the thread was offensive, I am glad someone changed it.

 

Idd sorry about the name. Was meant to be based as a question.. forgot the ? at the end tho :s

 

I don't see how that would change its meaning.

 

Hm well , i suppose you could call it patriotism yes... but adding fanatical worship into the fray in those ages didnt do a lot of good for anyone (part from the church who gained in money, land and followers.)

Well, based as a question it would imply that the subject was a discussion, and the statement open to question.

 

"No god for you?" That isn't a question.

So by this thread, I can assume you are aethiest. Were you born to an aethiest family, or did you renounce the faith which your family is?

You shouldn't double post btw.

 

Hm. Seemed like a question to me? Either way its irrelevant now, you know i meant it as a question, and you know i didnt mean to offend anyone with it.

As for your second question i was born into a 'mixed' family who told me since i was very young that i should make my own decisions on religion and not take their choices as the 'correct' path.... I am an agnostic actually, i tend to believe in a higher essence, or creator... but i do NOT believe in organised religion or the necesities of going to church etc etc..

 

I strongly oppose oldschool, forced, organized (christian) religion which is more than just common among (mostly US) population.