Religion

I was born to a Baptist family, I renounced my faith a few years ago.

 

When I think of all the things we could have had if it weren't for those religious lobbyists, ugh, don't get me started.

On a side note, I found an interesting branch of Satanism. Not the stereotypical Satanism with animal sacrifices, bloody pentagrams and stuff, but one that's more like an atheist's guide to living, so to speak. For example the most important holiday is your own birthday, and Halloween.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

 

*shuders*
satanism scares me. But, people who worship him can be good, is that right? I had a satanic friend, and she was the nicest person ever. but, I don't want to stereotype, but most followers of the satanic religion tend to be violent. I'm not assuming here, after all they do follow the icon of all hatred, pain, and evil.l Still, I won;t judge them even if that idea frightens me to a rather great extent.

Thank you for opening the thread back up Kerwyn, I agree. People here seem veyr civilized, however, so that should be okay. =3

When you think about it, religion is jsut a personal point of veiw. It's based on little facts, and a lot of belief. And let's face it, hope is no way to get through life. You gotta act for yourself in it. But, that doesn't stop people. I, personally, don't see the problem of organized religion as long as everyone thinks for themselves. true, I know people who would follow religion and its corruption without thinkign twice. but the fact is that we are smarter today.

Recently, our bishop here spent funds for the poor on furniture. $100,000 dollars that coudl have helped people were instead spent on things to go in his house. In his public apology to me and my fellow parishioners, he stated that he was sorry. Sorry? I highly doubt that. He thought he coudl get away with stealing money, and that's not tolerated. Some people shrugged it off, but most of us are wary now. We believe in our fath, but know man himself can be corrupted. As logn as someone isn;t a blind follower, I don;t think organized reigion is too much of a problem. But then again, I don't know why you dissaprove of it, so I'd be very interested to know. ^-^

 

I think that's a fairly open view to have. It's good of people, both religious and non-religious to have that sort of view. However you mustn't look at any religion as a stereotype. Satanists are not violent, but the stereotype is that they are. It may be because the most well known Satanists might be violent or that the ones that get the most publicity are, but I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of them are not. There's a similar thing with the Islamic faith. Some people are extremely hesitant or cautious of Muslims because they've been given a negative stereotype by the media's coverage of extremists. The fact is that they're no different to Christians, Satanists, Jews, Atheists, Scientologists, etc, etc, and this applies to all religions. The only thing that differs one from the other are their beliefs, not their personalities or temperament.

What ended up happening with your bishop? Did he return the funds or does he still have all the stuff he bought? Did he resign as bishop or is he still there? Doing stuff like that is just disgraceful. It's just preying off the generosity of others. Besides, aren't greed and having excessive riches supposed to be deadly sins now? Or is it so easy for him to believe and tell others that he's been forgiven because he's so high up in the church?

 

As I used to say: Believe in whatever you want as long as you dont affect others who dont share your faith.

 

I think a more appropriate saying would be: Believe in whatever you want as long as you don't affect others, regardless of whether they share your faith or not. Just because two people may share the same faith, it doesn't mean that one of them should be able to have a negative impact on the other because of it.

 

Do you mean me? If so i have already stated why i disapprove of it . but yeah that and the whole lack of logic and large flaws which it seems to present. But ofc i suppose if it provides some people with a way to 'leave' real life or to find reasons for lifes problems and helps them.. well i suppose i could say its fine. But organised religion is used in SO many cases as an excuse to do terrible things. An example?

Bush saying that in essence 'God' told him to invade iraq.. Sick of people using religion to help gain favour of the general (religious) public in America. Then twisting it to their terms..

As for satanism . haha, well tbh i always saw it as something rather funny
Note: regarding your first post Eonmaster: I didnt say that the faith, or the bible should be considered from a logical viewpoint. Only that from a logical point of view An Omnipotent God is a Logical Impossibility.

 

He still retained his status. He publicly apologized, sold the stuff, and then gave the money back. I can't just forgive him that easy. He knew damn well what he was doing and he did it anyway. My mom shares the same veiws as me, but she is more leniant. My dad, I'm not sure. He is very good at srguing both sides, so it's hard to think about what he actually feels. He's using logic, mnot emotions, which I try to do. I know he returned the money, buit it makes me think how many people do it and never get caught.

Well, I like bush better than Kerry. Kerry tried to wave the flag of "being a christian" and themn said he believed in abortion. I agree to let people within faiths believe what they want, but i am agaisnt abortion, so i didn;t like Kerry. Off the sibject for a bit, I also believe in the war for Iraq and believe it is better in the long run. Back on topic, yes, people use excuses like that. but remember, that's only one person. there are people from every religion who give it a negative connotation or appearance to the world. That does not make God or religion bad, only the people who try to use him as an excuse.

and, religion is not a means to escape logic, my friend. It is an attempt to use somethign to guide us. I, myself, amd a devout believer in evidence and i frequently challenge my own faith. But, that does not mean i don't believe. Don't blame the religion just because Bush made some stupid God comment. that's one person and it's unfair [even though life is unfair] to judge a whole religion based on one person. Especially when they do not represent the whole of the group.

christians get a bad rep, but I don;t think that's right. Not to blame the democrats, but the news is solely run by them. so you're only hearing one prespective, which keeps people from seeing the whole story and fully understanding. For each extremist or excuse maker of each religion, there are ten times the amount trying to help people and find valid reasons.

 

Well for starters i did not say religion is a means to escape logic i said it can be used to escape real life. And of course i know its just one person . One person using religion as an excuse doesnt make the religion bad, ofc not. I was just using it as an example of how various religions ARE indeed used as an excuse for bad causes.
I was also not judging an entire religion or basing opinions of said religions from what i have gained from that man . Ofcourse in the long run one man doing this does not make religion bad. i was simply saying that without organised religion (as i have said so many other times) there would be one less BIG ASS excuse for people to use, and not having religion would be a small price to pay for the deaths of many.

And you seem to have missquoted my point in your second quote >.>:
" Do you mean me? If ...the whole lack of logic and large flaws which it seems to present. ...provides some people with a way to 'leave' real life or to find reasons for lifes problems and helps them."

Rofl this is not what i said at all . Half of it is missing!. As i said at the start i did not say that religion is a means to escape logic at all.. i said religion could sometimes be used to escape reality. But wtf i dunno is this a technical forum related error thingy? Or (i doubt this) is it an attempt to steer what i said to a different flavour entirely? :S

Kinda off topic but... erhm, u agree with the war? Could u expand on this point more as im not too sure why one would. Ok i mean even from a favourable point of view of the 'reasons' they presented to 'help' the people there. There are MANY WORSE places than Iraq etc which would have been better off with Americas help. Look at china? The citezens there are forced to not show any sign of disagreement with the actions of their government while communists killed over one million Tibetans, destroyed over 6,000 monasteries, and turned Tibet's northeastern province, Amdo, into a gulag housing, by one estimate, Fp to ten million people.

A quarter of a million Chinese troops remain stationed in Tibet. In addition, some 7.5 million Chinese have responded to Beijing's incentives to relocate to Tibet; they now outnumber the 6 million Tibetans. Through what has been termed Chinese apartheid, ethnic Tibetans now have a lower life expectancy, literacy rate, and per capita income than Chinese inhabitants of Tibet.

The chinese have ultimately commited genocide. but u know why America wont get involved? Not because they are the peacefull helping hand country they pretend to show they are in iraq. but because there is NO OIL in CHINA and CHINA gives america all their damn products and trade.

Ok sorry, that was my first rant in a while.. but you get my drift.

 

Babmer before you keep trying to tear down relgion through argueing logic and all that stuff remember one thing. Relgion for all the atrocitices it has commited over humantities lifetime has accomplished one thing. It stops the poor from attempting to overthrow the rich(Broadly) and indeed extracts money from the poor which could be used in much better ways (/end economists rant >>) so everyone is happy in the end(Obviously this is most prevalent in feudal systems). In my view capatalism probally wouldn't work without religion there to promise everyone that equality and happiness will be yours for eternity following your dreadful downtrodden life.This is probally why the Bolshevik party in Russia was able to destroy religion without too many repercussions in Russia due to them "promising" equality and happiness in this lifetime. Of course i don't swear by this and it is a little bit radical but to some extent it is true. Thats the view of this agnostic at least xD

Btw are you saying the USA should invade Tibet... because i think there are alot more pressing issues other than oil which would stop the US from doing that . Besides whats so bad about not attacking a country because the country improves the standard of living in your country. If you get my drift =P, but that was kinda off topic

 

Ok, this is getting way off topic.

 

Who created god? Don't tell me he created himself because that's impossible unless he had already existed which can't possibly be true...

 

Man created god, not the other way around. Without people there would be no god.

 

I was never trying to tear down religion through logic. Only showing some people what appear to be large flaws in the logical sense of religion from a... -------> LOGICAL point of view. <-------
(Emphasis so i dont have to repeat for the 3rd time.)

And no, i am not suggesting that America should invade Tibet or China, only using them as an example of countries who are in more need than, iraq for example, but America pays them no heed.

 

Tibet has the most important reserve of water of the world. That's ONE reason why China has interest to get Tibet inside its territory. Where does the water come from ? The Himalaya, of course.

And you know water is being the most important resource, more than oil.

 

indeed? but i was not arguing why china invaded tibet.. only using them as an example.. Please read my posts! :s

 

I am agnostic/atheist, but I live in a country where 95% of people admits to faith, and I can see, in many cases,their faith makestheir life easier. I envy them. As for the logic - faith is not logical, you can't prove it's wrong. You need to - you believe. That's all I have to say.

 

Ok, I for the 3rd time now just for you Tetra Cerata . My goal was not to prove faith wrong. Only to present flaws in religion FROM A LOGICAL point of view. These flaws only correspond when viewed from a logical point of view and do not possibly work when used directly at faith. Because, as many people have said, you cannot use logic to directly undermine faith because religion supposedly is not bound by logic.

 

@Babmer: sorry, i was trying to get the important information out of your quote but i guess i cut out some inportant stuff, whoops ><

and no, i really son't want to discuss the war in this thread. It seems very pointless to many people and i doubt you'd agree with my veiws anyway. I jsut believe it's the right thing.

that's the end of the war stuff, i say we shoudl stay on topic, this is very interesting =3

 

But of course there are flaws in religion. There is nothing to discuss about