Sophomore

The cereal thing might not be a big deal to you kerwyn, but this applies to the actual school. Often we'd have to recite things like general orders, and lunch menus. If kids messed up too much the entire platoon or even their barracks paid for it. Sometimes by docking two hours of sleep, and sometimes by docking lunch for a week. Then if it happened to often the punishments would get even worse. So, when this one kid starts to fall behind he takes twelve other students with him. This might be okay once or twice but if it happens day after day. Then we resorted to the cereal or other methods and for some odd reason those kids never had a problem after.

As for the football thing, yeah sure if the kid is actually trying to support some kind of opinion or genuinely thinks a football team is bad. Then thats not that big a deal. However, when the kid says something like that for the sole purpose of pissing people off? Yeah hes going to get taught a quick lesson.

Hazzings aren't just to be cruel there ment to teach these kids lessons that if they don't learn their gonna drag others down with them. Also bullies beat up kids for simply being easy to beat up on, and usually making one person a target for humiliation and abuse. Hazings are usually more to teach trash talking kids, and people who refuse to get with the program how to conduct them selfs in this new environment. The military school i went to wasn't designed for punishment, but for giving kids who wanted a career in the armed forces a better chance in getting into a place like west point. If they were there it was because they wanted to be, and if they wanted to be a part of that school they had better show their worth it.

 

There are better ways to teach things. But because of the context it is more forgivable (which is why I absolutly dislike the idea of group punishment). But just beause the context may support it doesn't stop the practice from being despicable. We are still talking about a high school right? Most students I know don't pick their high school, it generally gets picked for them.

 

So nobody finds it worrying that kids get physically harm other kids and/or their property if they think it's deserved and yet it's (apparently) socially accepted convention? Even if in some cases hazing was called for I don't trust high school population in general to be able to correctly analyze the situation without bias. Specially when they have their buddies to support them.
I don't care if he says the football team is total piece of ****. You do not get to touch him for that. You don't need to bully people to make them behave.

 

Of course you do. What do you think parents are trying to accomplish when they punish their kids? Hm? It's just the same in my opinion.

We should be glad that we didn't go to school 50 years ago. A teaches could spank the **** out of you back then, and nobody would say it's the wrong thing to do.

 

"We should be glad that we didn't go to school 50 years ago. A teaches could spank the **** out of you back then, and nobody would say it's the wrong thing to do."

There, you said it. It's just that some school are apparently lagging 50 years behind other; Your school being one of them.

 

I didn't say that it was a good thing they stopped doing that. (being so strict, actually hurting students is just sick) Seriously, some students deserve it when they wreck classrooms and throw stuff at teachers. And the staff can't do anything about it, because they will get fired if they even so much as yell at a student. Not even speaking about people smoking pot right before going to class sometimes, although that only tends to happen with the lowest level students.

So again: some people just need some strict discipline at school. Not going to say that they should be allowed to hit students again, but an hour of detention with your iPod, mobile internet and on teacher around isn't really a punishment. Hazings are a way for students to make sure that a select few individuals don't ruin it for the rest. Lastly, like it has been said already: it's a tradition. If it really was that bad, then the staff would probably have done something about it already.

 

"Seriously, some students deserve it when they wreck classrooms and throw stuff at teachers. And the staff can't do anything about it, because they will get fired if they even so much as yell at a student."

What school are you going to? If a student was to do this in my school he would get expelled immidietly. In case of physical attacks the teacher has all rights to defend himself and this is a matter for police to investigate.
And traditions have absolutely nothing to say if they are morally/legally correct or not. I think this tradition is despicable and I don't care that it has been here for some time.

If someone is an *** you have all rights to ignore him or call him an ***. You cannot hit him or hide/break his stuff. That's the law and for a god damn good reason.

 

Aurora here is my opinion of tradition. Again, I am going to second Higgs here at my old high school if kids:

they would be expelled imdieately. It's the same thing with smoking pot, you get caught, you get expelled. The staff followed a very good rule of thumb, "you can screw up your own education as much as you want but once you start hurting another person's education you are a problem and are going to be dealt with."

 

Well that's the downside of living in a country where soft drugs are legal, eh? And nobody ever got expelled for anything on my former school. Didn't want to get their good reputation damaged, I guess.

And because I apparently have to make everything extremely clear here: it's not like those people are throwing bricks at teachers or something. But those erasers for the blackboard mess up your clothes pretty badly. That, and it's just plain rude to treat people like that. It's the problem with the school's rules, you know. As long as you didn't actually physically harm a person, then they couldn't do anything. Not my problem that the ones making the rules are way to laid back.

Still, sticking gum all over the place, eating and spilling **** everywhere, writing on walls, etc. I hated that. It really wrecked everything. Fortunately, those things stopped as soon as I moved up two levels. (not in school years, but as in being with the smarter people) Thank God I only had to endure that crap for the first two years.

But what's the minimum offence that would get you expelled from a typical American school? Would be interesting to compare. I only hear bad stuff lately about the American educational system, but it seems that at least your punishments are better then what those softies over here use.

 

"it's not like those people are throwing bricks at teachers or something. But those erasers "
I do not believe that this sort of behaviour is legal in your country little more accepted within the school rules.

"Still, sticking gum all over the place, eating and spilling **** everywhere, writing on walls, etc. "
And thats not against the school rules? Again, I do not believe that.

How hard is it to understand that you do not lay your hands on other people without their consent? Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Unless they are doing real physical damage to people and objects around them you don't have the right to touch them and if you do then you are to face the consequences (which in your school seem to be absent).

PS: I do not believe for one second that all or the overwhelming majority of hazings are done to jerks who deserve it. I just don't.

 

It really depends on the school as Jshep unfortunately pointed out. At my old school if you got caught smoking, drinking alcohol, or doing drugs you were likely going to suspended (or expelled if your offense was severe enough) on your first offense and expelled thereafter. If were caught being generally malicous by creating a mess

you would likely be forced to clean it up, then suspended if it continued, and expelled thereafter. If you are being extremely disruptive that would also have a pretty good chance of getting you suspended and expelled thereafter (really depends on teacher and context). I think my old high school tends to be the exception rather than the rule because the above only really happened after we got a new superintendent 9? years ago.

I still agree with Higgs though hazings shouldn't be the answer, reforming the school's policies should. I also, believe the majority of "hazings" really don't have a good reason behind them but are just an excuse to be a bully.

 

Why would anybody want to haze a kid who doesn't deserve it? That's not the point.

Also, you really have to learn to read a bit better before posting. We were talking about getting expelled from school. Of course you'll get detention for messing up a classroom and the other things I mentioned. But like I said in a previous post: you can hardly call detention a punishment anymore. Just doing your homework at school with internet and music isn't a punishment at all.

Lastly, what's up with speaking of "legal" stuff in my "country". It's a school, not a country with laws and stuff.

Edit: I think that LK's school rules are awesome.

 

Huh? So your school acts as an embassy? Are all laws replaced by the school policy and traditions?
And if yout detentions are like that then again - your school is at fault. I don't get to do my homework and get acess to a computer if I am on detention. If it's like this in your school then why not suggest modifying the rules a little instead of beating up on kids based on nothing else but your opinion?

 

I am still agreement with Higgs it sounds like your school is the problem Aurora. Either a bunch of students (or parents) need to get to together and make a point that you tired with the status quo. Or you need a superintendent (headmaster?) to come in and clean house, so people who want to learn can.

EDIT: Just to add another point

they are called bullies, hazing for some is just an excuse to be a thug.

 

actually, living at the epi-centre of Holland, i can say that its just your school bud.

 

Besides, alcohol and cigaretts are legal and yet they are not allowed in any schools either.

 

I see it as a hive system for most schools, when one worker/whatever starts causing disorder the rest put him back into place. Its good thing to speak your opinion and everything, but sometimes its better shut up and sit down before you get a deserved *** whuping.

Hell even where i work we have a slight hazing system to get them into place, nothing pyshical sort mind you, usually. Anyway, hazing is just a part of life, just accept it and move on.

 

Slavery was a way of life 300 years ago, and don't get me started on all of the other things that were "ways of life" that people would scream to the top of their lungs about today. It is possible to make arguments in favor of certain kinds of hazings, "way of life" definetly isn't one of them.

 

Each generation life changes man, and i didn't say it was a way of life, just part. I just accept that it happens, besides hazing has survived since middle ages and it probably wont go away,

 

Gforce is that a dare to list everything which has survived since middle ages until recently? I think it would be too obvious to do so.
And yes with that attitude it probably won't go away.