Starcraft protoss versus halo's covenent

And what exactly is your reasoning for saying zealots would mop the floor with elites? The simple fact that the zealots are too stupid to develop ranged weapons means most of them wouldn't even reach the elites, who carry a wide variety of energy weapons designed to fight shielded infantry, and use their one hit kill energy swords as backup weapons instead of completely relying on melee combat like some archaic dumbass.

24 carriers and a dozen arbiters vs. 750 covenant capital ships? Are you insane? There's no way 12 arbiters (do they really have a 1:2 ratio of arbiters to carriers in their fleets!?) would be able to stasis 375 covenant ships. And even in the mythos stasis is non-lethal and doesn't last long enough for it to last the duration of a fight that large. The covenant ships would have thousands of seraphs and other support craft (remember I said they had a few different gunships and such?) to take on the scouts and interceptors, not to mention the ships themselves are bristling with armaments.

A banshee is nothing compared to a seraph, which are the backbone of the covenant air force. To compare them to human technology a banshee would be a flying motorcycle, and a seraph would be a modern jet fighter. Damn I wish we had flying motorcycles.

 

These discussions are interesting. This thread should be moved to the lounge.

 

If all possible it should.

Yes covenant because of their clear army size advantage.

 

@necromas: Not 750 capital ships. 750 cruisers. This would be equivalent to a medium sized ship.

On the Protoss side, you have Corsairs, designed specifically for a hunter-killer style of battle (they were the Argus Protoss's defense when traveling). You have Phoeni, designed specifically to kill small ships. You have Void Rays, designed specifically to kill big ships from an insane distance. Then, as LK said, Arbiters literally turn everything invisible. And a 1:2 ratio isn't inconceivable. You may recall that cinematic where one was present for a simple raid on a Terran base. It also illustrates the range of the cloak. 24 standard carriers is a few hundred interceptors (light attack craft) lore-wise. Considering that a few carriers is enough to decimate most settlements in the storyline, 24 is an insane amount of firepower. Couple that with the fact that scouts basically shoot nukes, whereas a simple non-nuclear explosive is capable of destroying a Covenant ship (Halo 1 opening cinematic), focused nuclear blast would do considerable damage.


EDIT: Forgot to mention Super Carriers. The most famous example, the Gantrithor (Tassadar's ship) engaged and defeated a squadron of battlecruisers led by General Edmund Duke. That's a lot of firepower. Just one of those could decimate a large portion of Covie forces.

 

Well this is how I see it

The covenant focus most of their efforts on overwhelming their target with sheer muscle and force sacrificing many while the protoss relies on intellect and tactic and try to preserve more I guess.

Thats how john was able to do so much damage to the covenant to begin with and because of their collective nature they fell to civil war while the protoss seem to be more just although they have had problems in the past.

Also please put this in the lounge its going to get drowned out by random threads.

 

Are you kidding? The Protoss have so much 'sheer muscle' it ain't even funny. These guys go around turning planets, PLURAL, to glass.

 

That is how they differ but on terms of who would win the covenant for sure their like the zerg and protoss combined.

 

It should be pointed out that the Covenant glass planets as well (but they generally don't use just one ship to do it). Also, when I said cruisers I was thinking of the 15 ships that attacked Earth.

Necro lorewise I was pretty conservative on most of my estimates regarding the Protoss (with the exception of maybe the Stasis Field which isn't very thoroughly anywhere that I know of). The complete Protoss fleet probably has on the order of a hundred Carriers each of which carrying a swarm of Interceptors (I think 20 is a good minmum but if someone told me that something on the range 50-100 was mentioned in a book somewhere it wouldn't surprise me). Also, all of this is ignoring Protoss Motherships would can theoretically create something on the order of a Black Hole. At that point the Covenant could have a million ships but a Black Hole is still a Black Hole and will gobble them up (if it didn't destroy the Covenant fleet on its own a Protoss Mothership would at the very least be able to take on atleast 100-200 Covenant cruisers on its own because it could disable most of them with a Black Hole like gravity well and pick them off 1 by 1).

As for how the Zealots would mop the floor with Elites, the Zealot blades are atleast as powerful as the Covenant swords (which means Zealots can 1-shot as well) add to that Zealots can temporarly move at near the speed of light and a Zealot could destroy several Elites by just simply out manuevering them. Also, I don't have the image but lorewise there are Zealots that are equiped with ranged weapons as well (I just don't remember the name of the unit or where the picture of it was).

The biggest problem the Covenant are going to have with the Protoss is trying to actually hit whatever they are fighting. Carriers can have Interceptors attack targets at ranges that far exceed any weapons the Covenant have, add to that the Carriers would likely be cloaked by Arbiters and it ins't to difficult to see why the Covenant would lose. On the ground there are ways to take away this advantage from the Protoss but it would involve having a very tight control over the battle (and definetly not fighting in an open field). The Covenant has a more well rounded ground force, but that is only going to be helpful if they can actually hit what they are trying to hit (Reavers and Colossi out range anything the Covenant have on the ground, and Zealots are so manueverable they would be difficult to pin down. Stalkers have Blink and the hardened shiled of an Immortal would mean that they aren't hurt by much (Imagine trying to kill a Wraith kill a battle rifle), the only thing that would be easy (relatively speaking) to hurt of the Protoss ground force would be Dragoons, High Templar (if you aren't killed by a Psionic Storm), and Archons (which will slaughter just about anything around and they can fly low to the ground).

 

Once again from what I stated befor just because its not in the game doesn't meen they don"t have it including the fact that zealots would also have range weapons.

zealot are very fast but so are elites and both are very strong but I would have to say on a level its probably like comparing samurai versus vikings.

 

I'm sorry but there is nothing to suggest that an Elite moves anywhere close to the speed of a charging Zealot. I might be able to grant you the strength argument, but Zealots are just in a different league where most else is concerned because of their psionic abilities and the more advanced technology from which their armor is derived.

 

Ya I couldn't find anything on the but the zealot only have that huge speed advantage for a short time but that would most likely be enough to take one out.

 

Err kerwyn, do you know how many ground troops are carried on each covie cruiser, you got an army of which could inflict lots of casualties on a planet. Not to mention that if the Mother ship used a dark hole, it would generally suck up all the covies and the protoss.

PLUS if the covenant had 1 cruiser scouting around, the rest of the fleet could very accurately jump from a diff system and basically Surprise the protoss. Each of the covenant plasma torpedo could easily take out a carriers shields.

And if i remember, if the protoss have they're mother ship or super carrier, wouldn't the covies be aloud to a fore runner dreadnought or some what. The covenant have overwhelming power and mass numbers.

The black hole would be used in a last stand sorta thing.

I'd think this as a Humans(covies) vs covenant(protoss) lore wise.

a arbiter would maybe statis 4/5 carriers, not 12 taking out half a fleet!!!


Vampires would take out at least 1 enemy ship, seraphs would meet they're match with scouts and banshees would meet head on against corsairs.

The fore runner dreadnaught has a super fast really strong plasma beam that would spear a carrier in 2 if it hit the middle.

If the covenant wanted to learn the protoss homeworld, they would board a carrier and find out.

Covies would win on ground due to the specialized troops.

Anti Air vampires a-la statis beam/bomb which freezes enemy air and steals HP

Anti Ground Sniper jackals

Anti Vehicle or any thing else thats on the ground --->hunters.
Lore wise, hunters could be kinda like spartans->300
they could crush a zealot if he didn't dodge with the giant shield,
the fuelrod cannon can tear the shield and cause splash
Spines can be used to impale unshielded zealots.

each cruiser has at least 1 scarab which could eat zealots alive with its heavy mining laser.Wraiths could come in at least 20 and bombard enemy bases or troops from a range.

Counter list
Immortals would be brought down by combined grunt charge fire while hunters gouge the poor cripple with fuel rod.
stalkers with just hunters,
colossi with hunter/vampire,
zealot with jackal/hunter while the grunts en masse hold the line
photon cannon with cleansing beam,
reavers with banshees
if fenix was a out in the battle a zealot, he would meet his match with the covie arbiter.
If the covenant was losing, retreat, regroup with reinforcements and re attack.
or if only on the ground, retreat and glass the planet.

Its only an amount of time until the covenant win.


Hook line and sinker
and if you haven't noticed yet, im with the covenant here.

 

The covenant did have their share of death cruisers and death machines. I personally would like to see a battle versus the protoss and the covenant.

 

You realize half these arguments, like zealots being completely impossible to kill because of charge, completely contradicts the fact that the terran and the zerg with their pitiful technology levels are giving the protoss a fair fight. If you can shoot a zealot with a marine or fight it in melee with zerg units, why shouldn't an elite be able to shoot and skewer them?

And holy hell stop grossly overestimating the protoss fleet, do you know how much friggen maneuvering room there is in space to make stasis field completely useless except to get maybe 3 ships tops? And this is assuming an arbiter is a very large, expensive, and powerful capital ship itself.

So only carrier class starships count as capital ships now? Oh well, not like it matters what you call them.

What makes you think carriers can out range a covenant ship? You think those puny little interceptors have more range than covenant fighters? You think they for some reason have longer range ship cannons?

Here's a sample compliment of one covenant carrier (1455meters in length):

100+ Seraphs
200+ Banshees
34 Spirits or Phantoms
4000+ Covenant troops
Scarabs
Associated Armored Vehicles

Now I couldn't find a compliment list for a supercarrier, but they are 5300+meters in length, so you can guess. If just a few of those 750 ships are carriers and just 1 is a supercarrier, the scouts and interceptors are going to be grossly outnumbered. Even the non-carrier classes still carry seraph compliments as well, much like a carrier still carries ship to ship armaments.

They are no slouch with their technology level either, the shields on all but the lightest cruisers can withstand thermonuclear warheads without damage to the ship itself.

 

Err kerwyn, do you know how many ground troops are carried on each covie cruiser, you got an army of which could inflict lots of casualties on a planet. Not to mention that if the Mother ship used a dark hole, it would generally suck up all the covies and the protoss.

Do you know how many troops a carrier can carry? It's called a 'carrier' for a reason. Lorewise, it can carry large amounts of Scouts and Arbiters in it's bays, not to mention flat out troops.

PLUS if the covenant had 1 cruiser scouting around, the rest of the fleet could very accurately jump from a diff system and basically Surprise the protoss. Each of the covenant plasma torpedo could easily take out a carriers shields.

And vice versa. Recall dear boy, as well as FTL travel. I'm not sure you know just how strong the shielding is. One carrier took out multiple Battlecruisers. It's got insane defenses.

And if i remember, if the protoss have they're mother ship or super carrier, wouldn't the covies be aloud to a fore runner dreadnought or some what. The covenant have overwhelming power and mass numbers.

The Forerunner Keyship? It's powers are completely unknown, as far as I know, it was just there to open portals.

The black hole would be used in a last stand sorta thing.

Why? Pop one in the middle of Covie space. No chance of friendly fire except a few Interceptors.

I'd think this as a Humans(covies) vs covenant(protoss) lore wise.

a arbiter would maybe statis 4/5 carriers, not 12 taking out half a fleet!!!


Vampires would take out at least 1 enemy ship, seraphs would meet they're match with scouts and banshees would meet head on against corsairs.

Vampires have absolutely no shielding whatsoever, and are armed with Needler turrets and a few plaz cannons. I sincerely doubt that the Needler cannons would be much stronger than a Goliath's twin gats, probably worse. Seraphs are a match with Scouts, I will give you that. Banshee's are pretty much a joke vs a Corsair.

The fore runner dreadnaught has a super fast really strong plasma beam that would spear a carrier in 2 if it hit the middle.

Again, armament is not known.

If the covenant wanted to learn the protoss homeworld, they would board a carrier and find out.

Are you kidding? How in the hell would they do that? Blast a hole through it? I doubt any Protoss would tell them. If worst came to worst, the carrier command could just pull a Tassadar.

Covies would win on ground due to the specialized troops.

Not even. We've already settled Zealots>Elites. Take into account something like a Reaver or a Colossus, and it's all over.

Anti Air vampires a-la statis beam/bomb which freezes enemy air and steals HP

Arbiter. Can't shoot what you can't see/Arbiter Stasis Field is stronger (AoE)

Anti Ground Sniper jackals

If they know where to shoot. Imagine a building sized bomb factory coming at you. What are you going to shoot?

Anti Vehicle or any thing else thats on the ground --->hunters.
Lore wise, hunters could be kinda like spartans->300
they could crush a zealot if he didn't dodge with the giant shield,
the fuelrod cannon can tear the shield and cause splash
Spines can be used to impale unshielded zealots.

Stalkers would be an easy counter against Hunters with the Blink ability. Even a Dragoon would pulverize it. Also, seeing as Zealots pretty much move faster than thought, much less motion, so much for a melee.

each cruiser has at least 1 scarab which could eat zealots alive with its heavy mining laser.Wraiths could come in at least 20 and bombard enemy bases or troops from a range.

I think the Protoss Scarab kinda beats it out. Scouts>Wraiths by FAR

Counter list
Immortals would be brought down by combined grunt charge fire while hunters gouge the poor cripple with fuel rod.
stalkers with just hunters,
colossi with hunter/vampire,
zealot with jackal/hunter while the grunts en masse hold the line
photon cannon with cleansing beam,
reavers with banshees
if fenix was a out in the battle a zealot, he would meet his match with the covie arbiter.
You're kidding, right? Fenix was essentially a god among Protoss. "He has proven himself to be one of the strongest protoss warriors of all time." When your whole race is millenia old, and he's one of the strongest ever, he's more than a match for any one on one.
If the covenant was losing, retreat, regroup with reinforcements and re attack.
or if only on the ground, retreat and glass the planet.

Its only an amount of time until the covenant win.


Hook line and sinker
and if you haven't noticed yet, im with the covenant here.




Also, none of this is taking an Archon into account.

Seriously, look at the f*cker.


He's basically a psionic embodiment of pure rage. Do you really think he's gonna let anything stand in his way?

 

Fenix several nails on the head with his post, but just to add a couple of things: First a hunter was killed in the original halo by 2 explosive rounds from a pistol and your saying a Zealot that could run circles around a Hunter as well temporarly move nearly the speed of light would have problem with em?

Seriously though look at the weapons used by Humans on the ground in Halo, almost every weapon used by human infantry in Halo could be built with our current technology or in the next decaade or so. The Terrans have soliers in full power armor armed with weapons that only veichle mounted in Halo and they still get torn apart by Zealots. If you want a good comparisson the Marines in Sc are essentially using the gauss cannon that was on the Warthog as a weapon. Zealots take several hits from a weapon like that firing in bursts before even there shields fail, how many hits with that thing does it take to kill an Elite in Halo?

The Terrans would tear the Covenant apart on average. The Protoss take the Terran apart on a regular basis, the Terran atleast have a chance but they still need to use numbers to win and their technology makes the Humans the Covenant fight look like a bunch of natives with makeshift spears.

 

Ok going into specifics here is kinda useless since everything is lore and pretty much how you percieve the race, so I will be very broad.

The protoss ARE a step ahead technologically from the convenant. Teleportation, hardened plasma shields, psionic abilities, the khala. These are all abilities the covenant would wish they had. Politically, the Protoss are also a much more stable and stronger society. Grunts and elites alike are inducted members whose loyalty does not come near the levels of dedication templar and dragoons cultivate.

The space fleet argument. The covenant has apparently never met a worthy enemy fleet. Their whole fleet seems to me more designed as an invasion fleet, rather than air superiority. Capable of AtA sure, but nothing close the specialized capabilities of carriers and scouts, and, again, technologically inferior. And space superiority is priority one in a galactic struggle, no matter how cool your army is.

To take one example, and Elite versus a Zealot. First, Protoss shields and bionic augmentation are a step up from the combat armor elites posess. Second, protoss are much longer lived, and spend more time training. Third, Protoss are psionic creatures, able to use that power to enhance their strength and speed to levels unreachable by merely biological creatures, which is what Zealots do with their power. I'm sorry but Elites are green berets, Protoss are Demigods.

Take Master Chief, an enhanced whuman whose armor gets completely outclassed by basic marine armor. He is expected to at least take on an elite on fair grounds. Now look at how many marines, 1-on-1, a Zealot can kill before dying. Then you get a picture of a Zealot's power. I'd say Elites need to be at least on a 3-1 numerical superiority to Zealots to hold their place. And don't even think of the grunts, if the Master Chief scares them, merely seeing a Zealot would make their heads asplode.

The only possibility i see the Covenant winning, numerically superior or not, is doing an Overmind: somehow managing to get the location of Aiur and launching a completely unexpected all-out assault. And even then they don't posess the numbers of the Swarm. They would be in for a tough fight.

 

also, how are you planning to board a carrier? you do realize that each carrier only has 1 persona aboard, and the rest is pure technology?

 

Could someone put this in lounge possibly

 

@ijffdrie
The covenant could use their AI or plant a tracking device like they used to find reach.

@fenix
Yes your right zealots would kill hunters but if the hunters get a few shots on him, he's dead.