Unconditional Love

Wall of argument hits Babmer attention span for 1000!

Critical hit!

 

Lol.

 

bad dark, multi quoting someone above you =P

hate is an emotion, silly. or lack of love, call it whichever. but whether it's love or the lack thereof, it is as strong. you have seen code geass, yes? his want to get revenge overrode all else for awhile, even though he said he was also doing it for nannally. And you know i personally don't hate well. but i know people who are so hell bent on gettign back at people, that despise and wish ill of them so much they give up everything else to get back at that person. why do you think murders happen so much? or school shootings? it's not just disturbed individuals, thought many are. some of them are perfectly sane, and choose to kill people for the fun of it, but also sometimes as revenge. would you go out and kill because of love? because someone you love tells you to? no, but you will go out of hate and anger because you what revenge. so then, maybe hate is not en emotion, but rather a collection of ones. so then, are those greater than love? in today's society, it sadly seems to be so. and it's hard to deny they are not strong in a society like ours.

i know it is, it gives people worth in today's soceity where everyone is raised with the mindest of conflict and competition, where everyone needs to be better.

[

prove it to me. who says i can't love someone more than that?

i have a friend that will remain nameless for their sake. but i love him more than i love anyone else, and i could never see him in a romantic light. i have felt very strong love, and it still is rivaled by the love for my friend, even if i do not see him as a lover, and cannot. love may have different categories, such as friendship and romance. but who says friendship can;t become as strong as a romantic love, even if there is no romance involved? who is to tell me the rules of love? you? are you an expert on love? have you studied brainwaves, or made charts on people? i doubt it, and neither have i. people feel their own love, so who is to say romantic is the strongest? it's just known as the most passionate.

other countries do it, too. I think ximni said, in swedish, there are multiple words for love, that mean different things. maybe we should adopt those words! xD

i'll tell you as soon as i find something that doesn't sound awful to say.

and so is every other person, too. nad maybe they define it differently. your opinion is no more or less valid than theirs. to think so would be considered arrogant and self centered.[/quote]

it's fine, i know what you mean. and i am glad she makes you feel so well. i know you are an emotional person, as am i. so i feel you there. and, who is to say other people feel the same way? love has different meanings to different people. you say people abuse the term, and maybe they do. but you do not know how they feel. you would be right, i hear it thrown around very casually, too. to people they don't even know, too. jsut as a thanks, more or less. but you cannot say love is the same for everyone.

i might. but, if they enjoyed killing people, and were such a level of sadist, i don't think i coudl rightfully stay with someone like that. could you stay with someone who liked killing people?[

i would, ofc. but what if they went around stealing from churches, from poor people, swiping beloved things, breaking ans entering? even if you continued loving them, would you love that about them? would you 'love them for their flaws?'

i know what you mean. but i am -trying- to say that there are exceptions. there are always exceptions. i am pointing out that there are errors in what people say. self preservation often wins out over love. not always, of course. but there are people who love each other who part. there are people who pine over their losses sometimes the rest of their lives, but there are others who get over it and move on.

my point exactly

or is that just true of you? are you going to generalize love based on what you think it should be? or what you, personally, feel?

and it is your choice, agreed. but if someone i loved had a habit of stealing my covers in the night, or saying the wrong things at the wrong time, i wouldn't consider it a flaw, just part of what makes them who they are. what one person deems as a flaw might not be to another person.

but you said love should be able to get over that! contradicting yourself, and proving love can only go through so much in the end.

animals don't flee from every little thing. wolf packs? herds of animals? they stick together, even if the members hurt one another. wolf alphas bite the others or battle them to establish dominance, the wolves do not flee. yes, animals and people can override instinct (humans moreso, i believe) but you misunderstand what i say. animals cannot take abuse forever, i am not saying they always run from all pain and danger. it is part of life. human or non.

idk, but she found out about it, and it was at least like, three times.

two people can be entirely truthful and love one another, but see they are not best for one another. it happens. and you'd be surprised. some people stop loving them, dark. and sometimes people change to much after that time.

 

*sorry for double post, wouldn't all fit.

you got over me, did you not? not the same thing, but still. i've seen your argument, but imagine maddie is gone and you feeling the same way for someone else. you can deny it could happen, but you have no proof it could not.

[auote=darkone]You believe that animals can feel the same scale of emotions that we can? Our emotions and intellect is what seperates us from them, not our physical features.[/quote]
are you saying animals can;t feel the range of emotions we can?
elephants mourn their dead, site about primates feelings (not humans), dogs feel abuse and love, and now wikipedia's take on things.
maybe animals cannot feel the 'level' we do. but they certainly have the same range of emotions we have. at least, some of them can.

did the roman armies kill with the force of love? has love gotten people together to save people starving in other countries? does love make you forgive other people's mistakes? unless you are only talking about your so called 'true' love. and then that is still LOVE, just a different DEGREE, according to YOU. so what makes it so different, hmm?

prove it. why is it so much different with a 'lover'. you're just spinning circles, trying to appeal to that fact. what makes a lover, a soul mate SO much different than loving someone else? You are making claims based on your OWN emotions, not on other people's. and i'm trying to say open up. i'm not forcing my own emotions into categorie3s, i am representign all the other opiniopns, all of which you brush off because you feel they are not 'rght' or they 'prove nothing'.

umm....no. i would do anything for some of my friends. ANYTHING. even kill you, or myself, or steal, or rob a bank, or give up drawing forever. but i do not need to be romantically or sexually in love with them. sex is lust, because of love or not. and you CANNOT compare it to love, because you can do it with anyone and get arguably the same amount of pleasure. having intimate contact often makes people call it romantic or true. but it doesn't. you are saying that i cannot love my friend as much as you would love someone because i don't sleep with them? that is the most callous and narrow minded thing i've EVER heard. being IN LOVE is different from LOVING. you do not have to be in love with them to love them to that extent. that is just what YOU personally feel. don't try to generalize it in such a a way because you can only feel that way for one person. i can feel that way for multiple people, and i do. and i am not 'in love' with them.

also,
un⋅con⋅di⋅tion⋅al
adj.
1. not limited by conditions; absolute
2. not contingent; not determined or influenced by someone or something else


you agreed, that there are CONDITIONS in which it would change.

here, you accepted there are times when you can't go on anymore. if there is unconditional love, if they did not love you back can you keep loving them? if they abuse and hurt you can you keep loving them? would you keep on going and trying and pursuing if they pushed you away? what if they kept cheating on you? what if they hated you? yes, they are extreme cases, but it is, you said UNCONDITIONAL meaning with no conditions. therefore you should STILL love them, no matter what they did to you. no matter if they didn't want you or abandoned you. that is what it means to be unconditional. NO MATTER WHAT. and you've already admitted there are times people cannot keep going. thus proving my case. and if you disagree, and say 'no matter what', you are lying. because human beings cannot keep loving futilely. there is something called moving on. something called getting over it. and something called falling in love again.

edit: you may beast me at SC, but i win here. GG

 

Remind us next time to ban girls from entering conversations on love...j/k =P

Love between people is ultimately conditional since it is for self interest and our minds are such that our unstable mix of emotions can not hold true to another person forever if we gain nothing from it.

Giving up your life for someone you love proves this. You would give up your life for them now. But if they were to anger you by sleeping with another person, hitting you, flushing your dog down the sewer you wouldn't . But those things are insignificant to the worth of your life so why should any of that matter. The most pure meaning of the word should be used.

However Love of ones own existence and what the universe encompasses is unconditional. You would do anything for yourself, even kill yourself to end your own misery. Example is for people with acute depression they are too weak minded while in a bout of depression to commit suicide, it is only after they begin to feel better that they do it. Your absolute devotion to yourself above everything else is tantamount to unconditional love. Regret of past actions always fades away in the end and hating yourself for an action is only due to your failure of gaining something for yourself.

Giving up your life for something or someone gives a sense of fulfilment in your final hour and even a sense that you are benefiting yourself as opposed to slowly dying in misery.

I am unconditionally devoted and in love with what i am and will forever be

 

No, hate is the reasoning to anger, you want revenge, because you are angry with something. Otherwise you wouldn't want revenge.

Yes, I have seen Geass. He did do it all for Nunnally, even in anger, in his quest of vengence, it was all spurned because of his love for Nunnally.

PS: I cried so hard at the end of this anime.

I do?

Wouldn't you give up everything to protect the ones you love if you really had to? Even your life?

Most of these things are from disturbed people, only a few are from people seeking vengence. If someone kills someone for the fun of it, that is a disturbed person.

If I had to go out and kill someone, to protect Maddie, yes, I will kill that person. If there was no other way around it, I will kill that person for Madelene's sake, she means that much to me. If she simply just asked me to kill someone, because she was mad at them, then no, if I did, that would classify me as a disturbed person, I know I have problems, but I am not that bad.

Sure Anger is a strong emotion, and the quest for revenge is a strong urge, and hate is a strong reason to justify these things, I never said they weren't, but, Love is still stronger.

I am not trying to prove it to you, you need to realize it. I am only offering guidance.

Have you mentioned this person to me personally before, just so I can get an idea who I think it is. MSN works too I guess.

You see love as conditional, I can't change that, I may try. I may say it differently, but you will still believe what you believe, that is fine.

However, if all the things that were wrong with this guy, all of the reasons you won't be with him romantically, were suddenly gone, yet all of the things you like about him were still there. Would you date him?

Yes lets go talk to him about it, see what words in Svenska there is for love, though I would rather Norsk, but he can help us with that too.

Done yet? I really want this new word of yours.

I never said mine was more valid then anyones, I am just expressing the way I see it. I am sorry if I am coming off as arrogant. I have the right to my own opinion too.

Thank you, your blessing on this means more to me then you think it does.

Yes, I am not like other men, I have emotions, I cry, I am not afraid to admit it. I never said that other people can't feel emotions, or am I reading that last bit wrong?

Yea, I don't know how they feel, cause I am not them. People reading this might go "Hey, I should stop saying it that way", if they do, then this thread and debate just made a huge impact.

I don't mean that love is the same for everyone. I am merely saying what it is to me, as before, I have a right to my own opinion, if someone doesn't agree, then they can respond, or just skip over what I am saying. I am not in anyones face, forcing myself on them.

You would be scared for yourself. Even if that person you were with loved you, and never meant any harm to you, you couldn't help shake off the feeling that they might kill you, even if they would never do so.

Could I stay with someone who liked killing people, probably not. coughunlesswearedoingittogethercough

It wouldn't bother me at all if they stole from a church, call me cold, but churches are s'posed to help people, so there isn't really much wrong about it in my eyes, maybe to yours considering, but not me.

If they kept breaking and entering, that is their choice, I love them that is what they want to do. They could do worse things, and I would still love them, just don't get hurt or caught.

I know there are exceptions, not everyone is the same.

Sad that it has to come to this isn't it?

If someone just stopped loving someone for a small reason, you wouldn't feel that they weren't emotionally stunted?

If someone was stealing your covers, then you aren't sleeping close enough to them. Cause then they are cold, and need the blanket.

What you see as a flaw is different for each person. What I said before makes sense to what people see as flaws.

It should be able to get past it, but sadly, for a lot of people, it doesn't. Oh, and I have never left anyone, I was always the one being left.

They stick together because it is part of their instinct, otherwise they would leave if they didn't believe that they could win. There has to be dominance in a wolf pack, or the pack doesn't work.

Ouch. That would be rough.

 

If people can change, and they are not the best for each other, then why not do your damnedest to change yourself so you are better for your special someone?

And for them changing while they are away, that is a different reason to stop loving them. Not just because they are apart. This also scares me that you say this, because of what Maddie is away doing right now, please don't make me so frightened at losing her due to her changing while away in the Army.

Becauase they are that special person. Just because you don't believe it, does mean that everyone else has to.

Yeah, you're right. I am talking about my own feelings, you know why? Because they are my feelings, and I know what I feel is true. I'm not going to talk about someone else's, because they aren't mine, I can't quantify them.

Yes you are, you are debating with your own feelings, not other peoples.

No you wouldn't, you wouldn't kill me, because last I checked, I thought I was one of those close special people to you. I may not be the same that I was to you before, but I always assumed you thought of me as one of your closest friends, even during our fights. I can see you stealing, or robbing from a bank coughsamethingcough. I don't see you killing someone, even a random person, or someone you hate.

There is sex from lust, there is sex from love. Having sex with the person you love is so much better then sleeping with someone you just find attractive. You can get the same physical pleasure sure. You can't get the same satisfaction knowing that you were with that special person, unless you are with that special person.


You don't still love the people that you were once with but are no longer together with? Cause I do. Just because you break up with someone, or grow apart from a friend, you still love that person, deep deep down inside, even if just that minute amount.

Oh, and you can't win at this, you can only sway certain people.

Same reason for double post as kurai.

 

screenshotted for later use.

 

Go right ahead. I am not going to deny it.

Kurai has actually heard me cry over the phone.

 

yes, i have. and because responding is taking forever, i will say this.

unconditional means w/o condition and with NO exceptions. NONE. that is the LITERAL and dictionary meaning of the word as used by the English language, says dictionary.com and three dictionaries i looked at, including the Webster's dictionary. you always have reasons for loving someone, don't you? if you didn't have a reason, then it would be unconditional. but you do, you always do. because you like their personality, because you like who they are. if this changes, they're not the person you love. if said love was unconditional then you would love them no matter who they were or what they did, no matter what. no exceptions. not if they tortured you, tried to kill you, or tried to ruin your life. i am just saying in the literal sense, there is no such thing as unconditional love, because there is always a reason behind love.

 

love is illogical
(this coming from a frigid person)

 

In the non-literal sense I believe there is both conditional and unconditional love. I don't think it is limited to one or the other because a parent can love their child unconditionally and at the same could have had past relationships in which the love has faded.

Call me a hopeless romantic but I believe that true, real love will not fade no matter what and even if the person where to betray you or ruin you, you will still love them. There is no logical answer for this because love usually doesn't make much sense.

 

Yeah i was just joking I agree with you.

A man who cant cry is no man at all!

 

after seeing the previous page
*gets popcorn; watches two individuals go at it in trying to counter one another for that they both may or may not have felt true love and is finding out the essence of said emotion*

 

reading their argument was painfull, i gave up after their 3rd quotes :<

 

Rofl, I made a lot of minerals in here yesterday.

 

i won in the end, dark never retorted >3

 

I got critical hit from the avalanche of quotes
Was super effective...

 

*uses super potion on meee*

 

I posted myself out. You all know my feelings on this, that is enough. So, regardless if you got the last word in, you didn't beat me.