Unconditional Love

yesh. because i'm right?
because unconditional means w/o condition and people always love someone for a reason. hence love=conditional.

 

Would'ja quit?

I got my feelings across, so I really don't care how you define it. I posted myself out as I said, I don't want to keep argueing about this. I made like 500 minerals during the process though. Hehe

 

It has to do how people view love and all. I'd say, if it were unconditional, we'd love everyone indiscriminately

 

no i ain't gonna quit.
because love can be the most powerful, love can last forever, but it is not unconditional, no matter what you think, because everything has a reason ^ ^

 

You brushed over this arguement which i threw into the thread a while back >>.

Also what are the conditions of you not loving Jehovah and Jesus? Since killing and damning people for eternity hasn't turnt you away from them. But i guess self interest may lead to your falling out with them if heaven was no longer promised...

 

Who?

Sorry, I am aethiest, so that argument doesn't apply to me.

 

Directed at Kurai, sorry

 

marine, some people do not do things for themselves. there is something called being selfless. like, giving money to the poor, donating to food pantries etc. this is, in no way, helping the giver unless you consider 'feeling good' their own reward.

no, it's not. i am in no way devoted to myself. i've been through extreme depression, too, so i know your argument. the whole thing holding people back is FEAR. they are too weak to do it, not because they value themselves, but because they are afraid to give up everything and die, to go into the unknown. this is not related at all to love. people who go through such extreme things often do not love themselves. that is why they have low self esteem, where they belittle their value and think badly or less of themselves. i have known people who committed suicide, they did not love themselves, they did not value themselves. even the ones who fail attempts often wish they were dead. so it is not love holding them back. people are their own worst critics and often hate their faults and the things about them.

....no, again. have you ever failed to help a friend and felt bad? this isn't because you wanted more for yourself (unless you're one of those people who only do everything to gain for yourself...) i regret not talking more in depth with past friends who fell into despair, not ebcause i feel responsible for them dying, or becoming depressed, but because i want them to be happy for themselves. i couldn't care less if they thanked me, or if they forgot about me. there are things people do for others, and regret stems from many things, not just from self failures. also, some people NEVER get over the wrong they have done.

i do love jesus? but alas, that's not unconditional either. i had a friend who stopped believing in god because he believed God wasn't there for him. all things need a reason, he felt God doesn't help me, if he is supposed to help, then why is he not? hat's why he became agnostic. there are times when i feel tempted to lose faith, too. the difference for people is how much strain their love can take before it breaks. but there is ALWAYS a breaking point. it differs from person to person.

and i believe people who are damned deserve it. i believe few people go to hell, only people who like causing pain and hurt, but that's another topic.

and...even people who are not religious do good things, quit trying to dissprove it using means that don't have support.

 

The things you describe here are frivolous compared to still being able to live yourself. I'm sure they do feel better after doing this and that is one of the reasons they do it. They may also feel more secure if they feel that humanity is making progress (Obvisouly they may not be consciously be thinking this).

My whole point is that these people do love themselves (I know that line sounds cliche but you know what i mean) but due to mental illness they have reached a level of depression for which they can't leave. If their depression was cured they would recover and remain commited to life. However they are unable to stop the depression, the pain in their lives and as such it has to be stopped. If anything to stop causing themselves pain.

Its roughly along the same lines as if a friend was lying dieing in front of you but he had to lie there for a week in the worst agony imaginable. If he asked you to kill him you may, even if you still love him (Stable and unstable part of your mind).

I have been in similar circumstances where people i know have tried to kill themselves or died soon after i talked to them in circumstances which would mean i could've stopped them from dieing . Of course i feel regret for this even if i may not have been responsible. We gain happiness through others so of course you wish that they felt alright in life or had not died. I wouldn't care less either if i never saw them again. But i would feel happier if they were alive rather than dead. Happiness is greater than remorse for ourselves, regret may not end however it does fade due to our brain protecting itself from depression. My level of regret is at a much more stable level than when these events occured. On a pratical basis i can't see why we get over things or even feel better, but we do because we WANT to be happy.

I merely asked the religous question out of self interest. I do not see how one can argue that what i say has no support for the idea of love itself is hardly an idea that anyone here can define in context to what we're saying. Love for exsistence is really the only unconditional love out there. Depression, suicide are merely reactions to events in our lives. These do not destroy the devotion within we have for ourselves because suicidal tendencies are merely the minds way of ending the pain within itself. Humans are not clear thinking animals so our instabilities do not reflect a lack of love we have for ourselves but a lack of our ability to handle situations.

I am not saying that i wouldn't commit suicide if i suffered a massive bout of depression because i would have lost control of my actions (Don't come running with the nets as i can't see this happening in the near future). However deep down i would feel saddened by my actions for destroying the only thing that one can trully love forever.

 

love is pointless and illogical
i can make you do stupid decisions
and in the end, it will just be another thorn in the rose you call life...

yet...

love is pure and divine,
theres nothing like it, the feeling is great,
of all the forms of happiness in this world, love is at the top...

summary,

love is a paradox, it can easily be the best thing that
you may feel, and can also be easily
the worst thing that has come to you in your life...

so before you can determine if it is conditional or unconditional,
you must first determine what is love to you

 

i'll retort later marinefreak, it takes will and patience to reply and i'm busy x3