Underpowered Zerg VS T/P

I don't think zerg has changed much from brood war in overall strategy. Obviously there are major differences in unit abilites and strength but just like how most BW pros used 3 hatch muta I'm beginning to see more mutaling play in the higher levels. Yes, zerg late game units suck compared against other races when a equal amount of units are compared this is just because zerg is more about quantity over quality and it's obvious who will win when population is maxed, the non-zerg player has a massive ball and both players have equal skill. The point of playing zerg is to not let them get to that stage of the game. I'm not saying that zerg has a disadvantage in the late game but rather how the zerg enters the late game that counts. Typical Z v T/P matches often mean that the zerg player has 1 or even 2 expos more than the other player. Also ultralisk are one of the weakest units considering the supply/cost/strength ratio, stupid ultra nerf really pissed me off as now zerg as no anti-armor at late game. (Mass 3/3 cracklings are not an option).

 

Every single terran ground unit will lose to flanking ultralisks. Marines lose when flanked, thors lose when flanked, even marauders lose if they get flanked with enough ultralisks that the marauders can't micro. Of course, both thors and marauders will win if the zerg just balls all their units together and attack moves.

It's the terran who has to attack and win before the zerg can get too many ultralisks. I will try to make some video tests this weekend to prove my point.

 

Huh? Yes bio balls will lose against ultras but 1 v 1 ultra vs thor the thor will win. I've never seen any one go late game pure bio besides 10 marines with stim packs and a couple of medivacs can just kite ultras to death give enough space to move. Ultras are big and as such it is difficult to surrond balls efficiently also marauders with concussive shells and stim packs can just kite ultras to death. Any decent terran player will not let himself surrounded by ultras.

 

@Cthulthu
Concussive shells don't work on ultra's btw. Frenzy prevents any mobility impairments (also neural parasite).
Just letting you know.

 

In my experence you shouldn't be using ultras against thors anyway. Ultralist are there zergs answer to massed weak units, not singler strong ones like thors.

I found thor don't like zerglings much however.

 

Yeah, like Maraud . . . nevermind.

 

Do Thors splash themselves when you attack them with swarms of lings?

 

Actually... yes. I've destroyed MMM balls using ultralisks.
Youre not supposed to chase an MMM. You have to corner the ball, use other units to flank, or fungal growth. The splash from Ultralisks works great against MMM balls if you can stop them from moving.

Day 9 also has a great video of this. It's under his fundaymonday cast for no queens. One of the players uses Ultras vs. MMM.

As I said before, Concussive missiles do NOTHING to Ultralisks.

 

How often do ultras go 1on1 against Thors? Are the rest of both players' armies just sitting on their asses watching football?

Unless we are talking really early game, 1v1 comparisons between units are useless. Otherwise Roaches would be the strongest ground unit in the game, which they definately arent. What matters is how groups of units work against each other.

 

No, because thors do not have splash damage against ground.

 

And therefore are highly vunrable against lots of small close combat creatures they can't easly target with there special attack.

 

Ultras are kinda big and clumsy..... i dont really use them against terran... but i use them to own protoss
though i dont flank much.. because im being too lazy xD
but still....marauders can just kite ultras if they're not flanked...
i still dont understand how ultras counter every ground unit that terran has if they flank when thors actually win in a 1v1 vs an ultralisk..
then terran should win if they had even amount of units even if the ultras flanked
but ultralisks counter armoured right? cause then how can the thor win in a 1v1 when they cost the same amount and suply and the thors is armoured D:
me not like that ._.

 

Ultras counter the dreaded mmm ball. There splash damage high damage attack can kill marines so quickly and in such large numbers, the medvacks can't remotely keep up. Thors are a diffrent beast completly and are typicaly have a reasably even fight with ultras. Oh and you can't slow ultra either, there immune. So the mmm ball can't even kite them very well.

Course a high number of muraders might help fight ultras, but the high armour and hp can keep ultras alive even under heavy fire. Assuming there no raven surport a ultra can also in theory attack the mmm ball from inside by the use of burrow, shorten the amount of time there under fire and increasing the number of targets hit.

 

If you believe zerg are weak, then play protoss.

Problem solved.

 

That's because ultralisks have a weaker base attack than a thor. However ultralisks have splash damage while thors do not. 3 ultralisks win against 3 thors because when one thor gets attacked, the others also take damage. The ultralisks could focus two thors down, and the last would be left at 1/4 hp without even being directly attacked.

The only reason that 12 thors can beat 12 ultralisks is because the ultralisks are so big that they get caught up on each other and only 5-6 can attack at the same time, IF they all attacked from one direction. However if they attack from multiple directions (a flank) then all or almost all of the ultralisks can attack at the same time, and the battle becomes extremely one-sided. Worst of all for the terran, if they have less than 12 thors and are sure to lose, they cannot escape a flank because they are fully blocked by ultralisks on all sides. But if there's more than 12 thors and are going to win, the zerg player can just retreat and wait to spawn more ultralisks.

 

Not to mention Ultralisks are one of the faster third tier units in the game. When it comes to ground units, despite the nerf they are still good as hell.

 

6-10 Upgraded zerglings will take down that Thor- No problem!!

I would never use Ultras without having some zerglings to back them up.