what about money maps?

i hate mineral maps...
its hella boring and in my opinion, you dont need skill to play and protoss always wins because of the carriers

 

I hope too as well, but I don't think thats going to happen unfortunately, a lot of noobs will be complaining that they can't micro or macro fast enough. Thus need to be able to resort to turtling and massing 12 carriers or BCs.

 

Massing units is fun.

But that is because I am a noob and my micro/macro skills are terrible. I personally con't see why turtleing is bad, I do it on regular maps too. Even on regular maps, I end up massing units in the end because its easier for me to keep track of them and to keep my army moving.

However, I am going back to zerg, and am trying to learn diferent strategies that will improve my micro/macro skills. Currently, I'm trying a lurker/hydralisk/defiler dark swarm combination.

 

I don't watch much of the korean games. I'm not sure who plays what, or who does what; it was just a strategy I saw used before on b-net, and it completly destroyed me, so I'd figure I'd try it out.

I should look into his games then, see what he does strategy wise, and see what I should do to make it better.

 

Believe it or not, the average money map game is much longer than the average normal map game. On money maps, it actually takes more than 10 minutes for the fighting to start, often longer if players are trying to max out at the top of the tech tree. It frequently takes more than one wave of massed units to finish someone off.

This is exactly what makes rushes so important. They make it so players must balance resources against construction even early in the game. With rushes, you're on your toes at all times. A stable resource center is something you only have if you can successfully defend it against attack.

 

You like bashing me don't you

I just don't like rushes because when I do them, they get pwnd by ground defences, and when I build defences, they just get destroyed by some terran player using that cursed M&M rush.

When playing zerg, I build up a few zerglings for defense, along with sunkerns, then I go to lurkers and defilers for my main attack strategy, supported with hydras for AA defence.

 

A true rush is so early that the enemy can't fight it off unless they're anticipating the rush. If you're in early enough, they might only have workers to fight with, maybe their first-tier construction building working on their first units. If it's the case that they do fight you off, you've already won half the battle by forcing them to divert those resources.

M&M isn't really a rush-stage attack. Real Terran rushes are typically just Marines, maybe with Bunkers, with Academy units showing up by the second wave. If you're getting M&M on the first wave, you haven't been rushed, you've just been attacked. If you know they're going M&M (scouting their base, looking for the telltale Academy and multiple Barracks) just tech straight to Lurkers using a few Sunkens and Hydralisks to defend as you get up there. A Zerg player can hit Lurkers before a Terran player can get a truly dangerous M&M out, and once that happens, if the Lukers are use correctly, the Terran will be forced to go for metal or even air. At this point, you'd have the upper hand. You force them to spend money on detection, on different tech, and your Lurkers would stop any infantry they care to throw at you. On top of that, you already have most of the infrastructure to move to any of the main Zerg attack groups. A couple of upgrades will give you fully-armed Hydralisks or Zerglings, a Spire will get you Mutalisks. From there, it is a matter of being a step ahead by scouting.

With your Zerg strategy, all you'd have to do to make it into a more dynamic game is to rush those early Zerglings instead of defending with them. A lone sunken surrounded by the Hatchery, Spawning Pool, and Drones can fight off quite lot. In early game, a Zerg base with a single Sunken, commanded by a good player, is pretty much invincible, free to tech or build up as it pleases... until the real heavy units arrive.

 

zerg strategy...

rush with lings
but thats too noob, you might say

NO IT ISNT
rush so the opponent will get distracted and move away their workers while they gather up a small army to kill your 6 lings

while this is happening you can make more things in your base

and there was another one that was performed by Julyzerg
he rushed with 6 lings and kept sending 6 lings as soon as he made them

 

Ling rush is very effective. If you can keep up the attack by constantly resupplying more lings, your opponent won't be able to expand and use tech. Producing multiple hatcheries is an almost must to keep a larger scale invasion reinforced with fresh lings.

Getting to the supply line is a first priority target for any rush, to halt their production of military units, bringing them to your mercy. The moment that supply line goes down, it is only a matter of time before they surrender.

Or

If you prefer turtleing, build sinkers and a small army of lings. Then go directly to lurkers and have them guard any entrances into your base. Then build defilers and upgrade their max energy. Then send groups of defiler/lurkers upon your opponent.

The defiler's dark swarm will protect your lurkers from all ranged combat as they move it to get within range of the enemy, while the swarm is still up, bury them and have them attack all non ranged units first because they are not affected by the swarm. Then proceed to take out any defence buildings like bunkers, sinkers, and missile turrets. Be sure to use your defilers to keep a dark swarm over your units to protect them.

After your initial attack is over, unbury them under a dark swarm, and if you have enough energy left, create a pathway for the lurkers to hide under. Move them forward to get to the enemy supply line, bury, and have them all attack the workers, resulting in massive destruction, and an almost immediate surrender.

 

The Defiler/Lurker combo will die to any air attack (going after the Defilers before they can get swarm up, unless you honestly hope to swarm from your main to theirs) as well as quite a lot of special abilities. Also, it does not guarantee that your enemy won't go at you with a better-designed ground force. As you sit around, they only have one place to scout: they'll know exactly what you're doing.

Zealots going after the Lurks are softened up by a Psi Storm will win the battle easily. Irradiate.... All of this is stuff that can be done if the enemy is not even expanding. If they took advantage of the turtling, they'd probably go to several bases, and have multiples of your income. If nothing else, they can brute force you to death.

 

I've done it a few times on regular maps, and while it doesn't work as well, it is still useful as a very powerful defence and is great for defending new expansions. Attacking is harder because you cannot move forward as easily, but it is still powerful against all ground troops, and dark swarm protects them against air attacks as well.

 

Dark Swarm doesn't protect Defilers before the spell has been cast, you know.

A powerful defense will not necessarily bring you closer to a victory. A defense can't force the enemy to stop producing units, stop them from expanding and out-producing you. A defense exists to maintain your ability to attack. By turtling, you give the enemy these three advantages:
-The area they have to monitor is smaller, just the one base
-They can expand uncontested
-They can spend less on defense, more on offense and economy

In the end, no matter how good your defense is, they'll either overpower you or starve you out.

The point is, on non-money, the presence of mineral scarcity, resource control, creates complex strategies that simply don't exist on money maps. On a money map, turtling can be a viable strategy, because the enemy's maximum income is the same as yours. You can never starve to death, as resources are effectively infinite.

 

hmm...they wont die out of air attacks because if you are good, you would use dark swarm

but psi storm...annoying butthole ability...

 

The point is, if they're using Dark Swarm to defend, they're not using it to attack. And a quick strike with a group of air units can easily take out defilers before the owner can respond with the ability, unless you expect them to sit with Swarms over their units continuously as they stage and travel.

 

Just bury them in the ground, thats what I do. When I'm on defence, I always have spore colonies right behind them to ward off most air units. When on offencive, I always have a group of hydras for AA support, also usually under a dark swarm.

While I do tend to turtle in most games, I do expand and claim a few nearby bases. The only problem is; my lurker/defiler defence has a harder time guarding all my bases from enemy attacks. To counter the issue, I usually buiuld a few sunkerns and spore colonies at each expansion.

I agree about the psi storm, that is my most hated ability when playing zerg; since there is no counter for it. Dark swarm doesn't stop it, burying won't help, and I can't unbury my units because the only time ppl use it is when they are defennding me from an enemy attack. Its a lose-lose situation >.

 

Maps changed SC2 style? Fastest map? How soon?

Im sure blizzard loves thier original maps but many of them will have to be re-designd for cliff movement and jumping. This will alter the strategy in many maps. I belive they said Campaign editor will be available right at release so, How soon do you think a hacker will make Fastest map? Do you think Blizzard will encorporate a fastest map with a blizzard seal? They cant deny it is a very popular map. Fastest map does not have cliffs. this map would have to be redesignd if people want to play starcraft 2 the way it is meant to be played.

 

Re: Maps changed SC2 style? Fastest map? How soon?

Personally I think 'fastest' maps compleaty butcher the game. They do not allow the game to be played as it was meant to be played. They drive me crazy cuz there isnt a lot of strategy. Its who can build the most units fastest.
I'm sure, however, that someone out there will create a fastest map and it will be played. I doubt it will take long.

 

Re: Maps changed SC2 style? Fastest map? How soon?

..fastest map is noobish...-_-

i just wonder how they gna make BGH....they probably wont have any maps from sc1 one since sc2 units are so different. i also wonder if Lost Temple is gonna be in sc2

 

Re: Maps changed SC2 style? Fastest map? How soon?

The fastest possible map was one of my favorites in SC... Only there you might feel the real power of the Zerg.... I love making like 15 hatcheries and then pump units at your opponent... it is really fun and you have to use completely different strategy's to win such a game.

About how soon a map Will be haxxed... i will bet about one or two weeks after release, since Blizzard made the editor for such a purpose.

 

Re: Maps changed SC2 style? Fastest map? How soon?

I hope fastest map won't be made for SC2. Hell, it's just loads of factorys or gateways to build.. No chance to find some strategy out..