Which religion are you?

So if you think that god is all powerful, then god is able to do anything, because there is no limit to god's power. So, god should be able to create really large and heavy rocks, and also should be strong enough to lift anything. So, in your own opinion, can god create a rock so big that it cannot be lifted?

 

Well, by definition, wouldn't God be infinitely everything in the sense that he cannot be fully explained? We can speculate all we want about God, but the reality is that he is not fully explainable because He is beyond human comprehension. This is another example of how science and religion aren't that much different...there is always something that involves an infinite. For example, when the Big Bang was being debated, there was another theory that competed with it, I forgot the name and bear with me, I know very little of this jazz, but it stated that the universe was an infinite that had always been. Scientists were fully ready to accept it and if it was proven of that instead of the Big Bang, I would accept it as well. Same goes for God, he's an infinite that might have always been.

In Islam there was a practice that when talking about God, you talk about him in negatives. Instead of saying "God is good" you would say "God is not evil" or instead of "God is all-knowing" you would say "God is not ignorant." I personally practice this myself, because it identifies God's vastness and the inability of the human mind to fully comprehend him while still implying the things we know he's not. You can't just say "God is good" because he would be the purest and most infite form of good, so infinite that it is beyond human comprehension. It also goes with the saying "God is just." He is the rawest, purest, and most vast form of justice, so it is beyond human comprehension of how justice is worked at that caliber, so you would say "God is not corrupt."

It's interesting really....again ItzaHexGor i'm not trying to convert you, I just want to state some counter-opinions for the sake of a good discussion we have going.

 

The problem with this question is that you're using a far too 'human' perspective of omnipotence. Like Itsmyship was just talking about, it's much easier for us to talk in negatives, because there aren't any positives that could possibly accurately describe what we're talking about.
See, the matter of omnipotence isn't so much about being all-powerful, as it is being unable to fail. Instead of saying "God can do anything." we say "It is impossible for God to fail."

The point that Binary is trying to get across about language is that we're really just too limited to discuss certain concepts. Like the idea of God. See, if God cannot fail, then if he set out to create a rock that couldn't be lifted, he would. He would create a rock that, by all our definitions of the term, is unliftable. But the word unliftable only applies to our own plane of existence, which God does not take a part of. Therefore, our rules do not apply to him, and he can do the impossible. Thus, he could lift it anyway.

This does NOT make the rock liftable. By all the laws of our universe, the rock would still be unliftable. But God isn't part of this plane, so our laws wouldn't apply to him. He can do the impossible.

Like lifting the unliftable.

 

Wow I just realized this thread so be prepaired people I am not in ANY of the religions listed above yet. I am wiccan. I am actually Druid-wicca. Most of my friends are either wicca, cristian-wicca, or druid-wicca. Wicca is a very wide diversity of different branches and is one of the many forms of Neo-Paganism and thus so far is the largest. I personally just beleive in the basics and nothing to advanced and I really dont use that many spells that much anymore besides clensing my home and the regular once a month sabats. I am personally thinking about becoming a member of the Church of All Words. Just to let you all know Paganism is THE longest religion in the world to date before any other and the only one not to have been destroyed in a time of 5000 years of practice. Unfortunatly Paganism has seen so many religions have birth and die out it seems that it will happen to all religion nowadays eventually. Including muslim, hindu, and catholic-cristian. I doubt Budism will di though but that is my own personal thoughts. anyways as I was saying wicca is the largest Pagan religion now and we are a rapidly growing religion. In the USA they say about 1 out of every 5 teens become wicca and about 2 out of 5 try it. I think I will use a spell to help me with my money problems with either a lucky spell although they don't last that long or just a regular silver coin spell. If you guys want to know more about it just PM me or ask on this thread.

 

POWER ME DOWN DAMNIT!

itsmyship the name your looking for is the Quiet State Theory. That kinda got disproved though I remember something about evidence of the universe slowly expanding indicating there was once an explosion (big bang)

Darth_Bane, I'm intersted in the Wicca religions, what do they entail? How do you preform spells? Have you actually seen the spells work? If so please describe the event. I don't think there is any Wicca grooups in Australia.

Has anyone heard of the Sumerian Tablets? They're not well known but I'm told very contreversial. They're also the oldest found form of writing on this planet. I can go into more detail if you wish, I have alot of info you won't find anywhere else - cause my Biology teacher is friends with one of the analysts of the Sumerian Tablets, and she gave our class a bunch of info on it.

 

PrivateParts: Yes please would like to know more about the Sumerian Tablets. Who wrote them? How did they write them and why?

Darth_Bane: Care to give us the lowdown on the core beliefs of Wicca? In parts of London there are markets where you can buy Wiccan items like necklaces with Wiccan symbols on etc. but never sure if that's just for the tourists. Am I correct in saying that Wicca is a witch religion that originated in East Anglia, a region of England?

 

Btw, I'm Orthodox christian

 

Yes the Sumerians acyually had the longest known form of writing but I think they found about a hundred or so artifacts made about 1000 years before the sumerian empire was made and the artifact all entailed Paganism to a degree one was a thorshammer actually and you cant get more Pagan than that.

About the spells. Yes they work. The only way they won't work is if either someone is blocking it or you did not make it yourself. If you did not make the spell yourself they usually aren't that powerful so they may deminish rapidly or not even work period. I have seen a many of my spells work. One instance was when I summoned a spirit of the forest to become my servent (I can't say its name because someone could use it against me if they wanted to and I already know no one else outside my famly knows its name). The forest spirit is one that has been serving my familys blood line for many centuries I even have the story of how my ancestor came to meet it. My ancestor who first met him was one of the generals of King Alaric the first of the Visigoths. When they were marching to Italy for the seacond atempt at an invasion of the Roman Empire he was walking through an ancient forest and his company that was wih him was attacked by bandits and then wolf packs untill he was the olny one alive and with very few resources with him. He tolk refuge under an extreamly old oak tree about the size of my 2 door garage supposedly and hid within a hole just big enough for him to fit in beneath one of its roots. The bandits tracked him to there but they could not get to him so they descided to smoke him out. They set the ancient tree on fire and as it was burning my ancestor freed the spirit within the tree into our materium and it turned out the spirit was the gaurdian of the forest and well it was pissed of so it commanded the forest to trap them inside it for the forest was on fire then and it wanted them to feel how it felt to be burned alive (pretty scary huh). It showed my ancestor out of the forest and back to the encampment of Alarics armys. Later that night in his tent the spirit came back to him and they talked for a time and made an agreement. The agreement was that his blood line would serve the forest as long as they were alive and the forest would protect and serve them as well. And to that day the agreement still rings true because I talked to the spirit and I convinced it to become my partner and servant but mainly partner.

How to do a spell: a spell usually requiers candals of a certain color, a knife, and an incantation. The incantation is usually pretty simple unless it is an advanced spell and involves you asking two of the four elemental gods and for some advanced spells requier 3 elementals and there are so far only 3 people who used a spell with all 4 and it requiered all 3 people to contain the power. There are a few people who are born with some small special ability and who can do spells with their mind. I was born with the very rare ability of manipulating shadows. I heard some rumors of what you can do withmanipulating shadows and I think I will try a few of them. You do not have to be born with the ability to cast spells in your mind but you can train to do so but if you screw up one single time the shits gona hit the fan big time and usually a large catatrophy happens.

About Wicca: Wicca is a nature based religion when you harness the powers of nature for the benifit of nature. Unfortunaly there are those people who use spells for evil but they get what they deserve in the end. One of the largest rules of magic is the one 3 people made together and I don't think can be broken since its already been imprinted upon the universe for to long now. It is called the rule of 3. It is very simple whatever you do with magic comes back to you three fold so if you do something good with magic it comes back to you three fold and if you do something bad with magic it comes back to kick you in the ass really hard. The 3 people who made it I think I mentioned it earlier had to use all 4 elementals in the spell and also the blessing of the Lord and Lady to contain, and harness the imense spell. It is now one of the most promenent rules of Wicca because everyone knows about it. Now this will really bogle your mind here. But if you don't know a single thing about it, it will not affect you. That is the way of the universe for some reason and its really screwy.

Wicca origionated somewere in iceland became popular in London and became huge in USA and so far USA has largest population of Wicca.

 

could you post some more details in the magic database?

 

I will but what what do you want to know?

 

I understand that we can only speculate on this, but when you said...

...it does not really answer the question that I put forwards. My question wasn't can god create an unliftable rock, it was can god create a rock so heavy that even he, himself cannot lift it.

 

*COUGH*chucknorris*COUGH COUGH*

 

LOL, Fenix. surpirsingly, that only the second time I've seen is names on these forums.

 

And I answered yes, he can. Obviously we can't say that weight would even apply, because he's a metaphysical being. But yes, he could create a rock that he himself could not lift. If after having created said rock, he was then asked to lift it, he would calmly proceed to lift the rock.

Now, you're going to say that that's a contradiction. Clearly, if he could lift it, then he failed in creating a rock that he couldn't lift. I'm saying it's not. I'm saying it's just a matter of being beyond our comprehension that God could be SO powerful that he could create a something with two contrasting properties (He can lift it, and he also can't.) That's omnipotence for you.

Is it ironic or coincidental that I made that joke in another thread, then happened to come here later to debate the same topic? I'm going with coincidental.

On the same topic, Chuck Norris can NOT grow a beard so large that even he can't lift it. This is because before it reached that point, it would engulf the entire universe. Although Chuck Norris would obviously survive the subsequent implosion, size would have no relevance any more, so it would just be "Beard."

 

Of course, he would have no point to do so. He doesn't have to prove himself.

 

Yeh yeh let's not turn this into a Chuck Norris debate, coz I don't know much about him at all. Except he is a actor or something that people seem to think is god. Heard a funny one once: Chuck Norris' tears cure cancer. Too bad he never cries, ever.

Ok well the Sumerian tablets here we go:

They were discovered in 1799 and written in cuneiform. Tens of thousands of tablets were found and most translated by 1930. told the same story as other writings found in hieroglyphics and ancient Greek writings.

Around 5 200BC scribes from various countries and cultures were given information to record. In 2 400BC Hebrews got the stories and recorded them, then Christians, then Greeks). Each recording was written/translated according to the prejudices of the scribe, culture or religion.

The story is told with the planets themselves having personalities (perhaps as a storyteller might say it to children). The “depersonalised†information follows:

In the beginning was the Sun (APSU) and a giant planet called (TIAMAT).
They moved close to each other and Tiamat broke up.
Mercury (MUMMU) formed – described as small, fleet of foot and grey brown in colour.
Mars (LAHMU) – the red planet.
Venus (LAHMU) – the yellow planet.
Saturn (ANSHAR) – and Jupiter (KISHAR) were formed before Venus and Mars had solidified.
All of these planets were described as firm, solid planets. The rest of the outer planets are described as gaseous, watery and plastic.
Uranus (ANU) and Neptune (NUDIMMUD) are described as twin planets. (See voyager’s report)
Pluto (GAGA) had an orbit that “visited the other planets.â€

Keep in mind this info is on the tablets, which is thousands of years old. How did they know what the planets looked like?

Initially, the planets did not have a set orbit.
Somehow the sun was “calmed down†so that it would not form into a supernova at that time.

Then another planet entered the solar system on a clockwise course. MARDUK.
As it neared the planets, chunks of matter broke off that ran BEFORE the planet body. (Scientists have only recently discovered this phenomenon)
Marduk headed for what was left of Tiamat. Tiamat had satellites around it, the biggest was KINGU.
The two planets did not collide (Impossible anyway - see Stephen Hawkins discovery)
However TIAMAT was severely damaged by Marduk's satellities. What was left of Tiamat became the EARTH, and the pieces from the collision with the satellites, formed the asteriod belt (SHAMAIN) Discovered 1807. This belt divided EARTH from HEAVEN.
KINGU became the moon. It is described as DUG GAE - a pot of lead! (When Apollo landed on the moon and took geological samlpes, they were described as 'motherless lead' ie no Uranium left in them.)
Tiamat's other satellites became comets.
MARDUK returns each 3,600 years (called a shar)
It is estimated that the near collision between Marduk and Tiamat took places about 4 billion years ago.

Life on Earth

The Marduk satellites that were involved in the collision with Earth had life already existing on them. This life 'seeded' the earth. Evolutionary processes then took over.

The ANUNNAKI race lives on MARDUK. They observed the abudance of water and the minerals on earth and decided to take an interest in our planet. They formed a colony on our planet. (The bible refers to the anunnaki as NEFILM - those who from heaven came to earth.)
The settlement occurred after an ice age and the land was "marshy". The first settlement lasted 28,800 years (8 shars). Then a new leader came.

The Origin of Homo Sapiens

After they had mined for minerals for 144 000 years, the ANUNNAKI asked their leaders to create a 'worker' (In SSumerian, the symbol for worker is the same as the symbol meaning worship) The leaders (referred to as Gods by the Sumerians) then experimented with genetic engineering to produce an acceptable worker. DNA was represented as two entwined snakes. Their engineering led to many different forms of animal creations - all unaccepbtable. (Sarcophagi found in the desert show corpses with mixed DNA - confirmed by British Museum where they are now held)
Then 200,500 years ago (approx) they decided to unite the ovum of homo erectus (already on the planet) with the sperm of the Gods. The zygotes were planted in surrogate mothers. 14 were first formed -7 male -7 female. The animal was a hybrid and not fertile. It was called ADAMA - one of the Earth with red blood. Homo sapiens was formed "in the likeness of the gods". The Adama worked for the gods.

The surrogate mothers, after a long period of time, complained and requested that the ADAMA give birth to their own.

The gods then needed to produce fertile female ADAMs. To do this an ovum from adama was taken and 'reconstructed' with the help from marrow in the male adama rib. (So that the immune system would not reject it). ????? This part is difficult to understand.
The fertile female was made and "Eve" was created.

The ADAMA worked the Garden of Eden. They were given strict instructions not to eat from certain plants. The "serpent that tempted Eve was actually one of the Gods who was either later described as a serpent or who already had that nickname.

By eating from this plant, somehow, the male adama got the idea to have sex with Eve. They then became guilty and conscious of their genitalia and covered them with leaves, as they feared the god's reactions. (In Sumerian "to know" is to have sex. The tree of knowledge is a plant that somehow necourages eaters to have sex. (aprodiasic?)). Why it did not occur to them before that is a mystery.

Adam and Eve were then banished from the Garden of Eden. The word about sex then spread to the rest of the adama and it seems that they then set about making up for lost time! The adama then 'went overboard' and homosexuality, beastiality, rape, drugs and refusing to work became prevalent.

The gods then decided to get rid of them. Firstly plagues and sickness were introduced - but this did not stop them.
Then a drought was induced - still did not work and cannibalism had occured because of hunger.
Finally, the flood was decided upon. One of the gods, who felt sorry for Noah, because his family had not indulged in the unacceptable behaviour, warned Noah of the impending flood and gave him instructions as to how to survive it.

The gods then abaonded Earth in their spacecraft and returned to heaven as Marduk was approaching for its next return. Some gods apparently elected to help mankind rebuild after the flood.

The flood took place in 12 000 BC.

Marduk is due to visist again in 2012(when the age of aquarius starts) This is coincidentally when the Mayan Calendar finishes.

 

you just sucked that out of jour tumb, or is it real?

 

No you idiot, this is the notes my biology teacher gave me which she got off one of the analysts of the Sumerian Tablets. Learn to read -.- owerdown:

 

nonono, you got it all wrong, we owerdown: you, not the other way around

 

Aww I'm sorry - but I already powered you down! :upset: No. I am not upset. That was sarcasm.