Zerg Queen[poll and guide]

Re: Zerg Queen

Ahh yes, the good ol' lurker is supposed to help defend the base. Obviously this means that detection is a must against zerg, if lurkers are to be used heavily.


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To those who say that breaking into a zerg base requires 2 prong attacks :
YES this makes pretty good sense.
1)The zerg army commited to defending around the queen will naturally look larger (and more swarmish) relative to your 1/2 army that is currently engaging. Obviously that is the feel of the zerg to completely overwhelming attacking forces, and an angry bee's nest.
2)Being more "intelligent" (or at least independant) ..protoss and terran would naturally swtich up battle tactics to overcome feral animals like the zerg. A double pronged attack is just that.

It just depends on how tough zerg buildings are (which'll determine their resistance to double pronged attacks). The zerg's quick build speed means that any losses sustained during the initial battle with the 1st prong can be replenished for the 2nd prong.

Also, as the race that cannot fast-repair their buildings.
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Last note : Shriekers so far sound rather "lame" or at least "loud" But i'll hold judgement until i see it in action.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Detection is a must against zerg anyway because of nydus worms

I think it will be possible to set static defenses in expansions, so in case of double attack you will "only" lose the support from queen.

 

Re: Zerg Queen


Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

i'm under the impression that the queen sets up static defenses like the nomad... which again i would not be surprised if they scrapped (nomad).

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Please read the rules and don't quote posts right above yours.

From what I've gathered It will work pretty similar to drone, but only queen will be able to do that. They cost minerals (or at least some of them, others may have cooldown) and you can even queue them.

I don't think Nomad will be scrapped after they've changed the model, also it seems rather powerfull right now

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Static defenses usually don't consume control, and you can have more of them for that. Of course one eventually uses units as well, but I think the idea is to make attacking the best defense. And let the Queen there to stop raiders and regular hit-and-runs, smaller threats. At least I'm seeing it that way. :

 

Re: Zerg Queen

The only thing I don't like about the new Queen is that there can only be one.

There are three big reasons for this.

1. This is the most backwards military thinking for the zerg. Real armies evolve by responding to things that challenge old ways of handling war. The zerg had gotten their nerve center (The Overmind) crushed and now they are back to relying an all in one military command unit? Even if you don't like bringing real world arguements, you can't deny the zerg's mantra is to discard what's weak for better adaptability. The zerg after losing the overmind should be more in favor of a decentralized command structure.

2. Now a point can be made that zerg command is still centralized with Kerrigan in control. That can't be helped due to the nature of how the zerg initially evolved to begin with. That said why would Kerrigan be willing to entrust the care of an entire zerg colonies defense to one all powerful being? She spent her last campaign ensuring dominance over the swarm and now she hands over the entire defense plan to one being that has to be somewhat intelligent to manage such responisiblities? If this was April 1 I would think this was a big farce.

3. Queens in the SC manual were mentioned to be command units like Overlords. They specialized in watching over the bases ensuring production was maintained while the Overlords were used for offensive/exploratory armies. The original Queens never even fufilled that role. Creating Queens never gave you supply to control drones (like they could've) or any other unit. Queens if used were used moreso for offense and exploration than defense of bases. Queens from SC/BW massively failed in matching their conceptual design. This new queen actually fits the concept and Blizzard mucks it up with the single unit rule.


My suggestion for queens are simple. Allow one queen to built for every hatchery. When a hatchery is upgraded to a lair and hive the queen associated directly to that original hatchery will also be upgraded.

As for abilities:
Definately leave in Creep tumors, lay eggs, shriekers, giving buildings an attack upgrade and building regeneration. These all tie in to the queen's original concept nicely.

Possibly leave in deep tunnel and poison creep. Neither are really needed since more than one queen can exist and the buildings combined with the eggs probably supply sufficient defense as is.

Forget about mass command. This isn't such a bad idea to leave in, because as shown with arbitor usage in various games, an ability like this is better with greater numbers not less. That said do the zerg really need an ability like this that could marginalize nydus worms to an extent.

The only thing I would add is an ability for the Queen to boost the abilities of drones in terms of any one thing whether it be in resource gathering, survivalbility, base defense, etc. It could be anything just as long as the Queen does something unique with drones.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

She is not a centralization of the old strategies, she is a novelty. There was never a Zerg defense system, as Zergs aren't defensive. Having one unit to be singled out and fulfill that role to a minimum was necessary, and fits what you just said about evolving on the weaknesses. For Zergs, defense and casters were always the weakness.

I greatly dislike it. A Queen can force the enemy to attack more than one place at a time, and is at same time powerful as it is challenging to make it useful in every base you get. The Zerg has to push forward to keep the enemy at bay with just one Queen. With several, he could build his base defensively and Zerg would become a defensive race. Yuck!

I think this "mass ability" is not an ability, it is just a way to describe how she handles the defense systems: she does handles every aspect of defense. That video where she seems to be commanding the Swarm is just for graphic purposes, not really an ability, if that's what you were thinking at.

And boosting the drones would make her more like a Tauren Chieftain than anything else. Drones are drones, she is a defense unit. But that's you opinion and you're free to have it.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Check out this site (thanks to johnnyxp64) :
http://www.sclegacy.com/content/starcraft-ii-archive-7/zerg---units-63/

It appears that the Queen will return to the original Lore of being the Hive warden. She "evolves" throughout the course of a game. Its evolutions are Queen, Lair Watcher and Hive Matriarch. The Queen is produced directly from the Hatchery, is a ground unit, can burrow, and only one may exist at a time. As your Hatchery is upgraded to Lair and Hive, the Queen can be upgraded as well, growing in size and eventually allowing access to her full range of skills.

Nice, you will need to mutate her to make her stronger!
This is her 3 forms:

Queen

Type: Ground/Biological
HP:160
Max Energy: 100
Minerals: 150
Vespene: 25
Supply: none
Requires: Spawning Pool
Built From: Hatchery/Lair/Hive
Mutates Into: Lair Watcher
Attack:
Damage: 8 Ground/Air X2
Armor (type): 0 (Light)
Abilities:

* Creep Tumor (Creates creep): 25 Minerals
* Swarm Clutch (Attacks ground/air): 75 Minerals
* Shrieker (Detector for Swarm Clutches): 150 Minerals
* Regeneration (Regenerates units or buildings): 50 Energy

Lair Watcher

Type: Ground/Biological
HP:250
Max Energy: 200
Minerals: 100
Vespene: 100
Supply: none
Mutates From: Queen
Mutates Into: Hive Matriarch
Attack:
Damage: 12 Ground/Air X2
Armor (type): 1 (Light)
Additional Abilities:

* Deep Tunnel (Tunnels to selected Zerg building): No cost. Long cooldown.

Hive Matriarch

Type: Ground/Biological
HP:600
Max Energy: 100
Minerals: 100
Vespene: 100
Supply: none
Mutates From: Large Queen
Attack:
Damage: 24 Ground/Air X2
Armor (type): 0 (Light)
Additional abilities:

* Toxic creep: 100 Energy

As we can see some of the abbilities even cost minerales. Cool!

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Nice info dude! owerup: for ya!

I didn't see it written, but I suppose that Lair watcher requires Lair, and Hive Matriarch requires Hive. The defenses she builds mustn't go away when she dies. She can repair buildings twice in her first form. And she is only needed in later forms to travel fast to Zerg locations and to hold-off higher scale attacks. It works for me!

EDIT: Too bad her energy doesn't increase, but I suppose it would be fully restored upon mutating into a higher form...

 

Re: Zerg Queen

I hope that isn't final, but I will add it to my original post anyways.

I dont like it cuz it looks like you downgrade her then you evolve into the Hive Matriarch. Your armor goes from 1 to 0. Also, the lair form has 200 energy, and the hive form has only 100 energy.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Hmmm, it is probably a typo. Wouldn't make sense to downgrade her. She may have actually 300 energy in final form, and gain no more armor, and they got it as having no armor and having only 100 energy, when in fact it was gaining 100 energy and keeping the previous armor. Otherwise I'm against it also! ò_ó

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Thanks for the info furrer! This definitely puts some of my fears about the Queen to rest. I thought all of her defense spawns would cost energy, like the Nomad's turrets. I'm glad to see she's just a special builder/caster.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

I think the queen is a great in its new role, in SC1 it was hardly ever used but now its probably the most essential unit for zerg. Plus i like the idea by mutantmagnet with each each hatchery being able to spawn more one queen. However instead of each hatchery being able to spawn a queen IMO each hive should be able to make a queen. I think this would balance because of the time and resources it take to get a hive, plus the time required to build a second queen could be longer than the first.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Like Kaaraa, I'm also relieved that it's defence abilities will cost resources, not energy. The zerg defence will be based on how much you have to spend, not how much energy the queen has in reserve.

I like where Blizzard is currently going with the queen. It is not only is powerful, but can also build defences as well as havint a few spells like deep tunnel.

It's amazine how much life the queen gets after each upgrade.
-it goes from 30 to 250 after first upgrade
-it goes from 250 to 600 after second upgrade

Thus, once it evolves to the second form, it loses much of its vulnerability. Because of that fact, I think one new strategy will be to rush to the hivelair as soon as possible soley for the reason to upgrade the queen before any zealots show up.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

A group of zealots would still take down the Queen even if she was in hive form. And if you try to tech to hive so fast you're not going to have much units. If they haven't attacked yet, they'd have at least 12 Zealots and some stalkers/immortals when you get your hive. 12 Zealots at 16 damage each = 192 damage per hit. One Hive Matriarch does 24 damage per hit. Queen has only 600 hp. 12 Zealots have 160 x 12 = 1920 total hp. Since they have about the same attack speed, the Queen will die without killing a single Zealot. If fully upgraded it will last a bit longer, but the outcome is still the same. Even in the Hive form it's still not that strong.

A better strategy would be to get a group of Zerglings and Roaches to defend and harass the enemy while you tech more slowly but more safely. Continue to pump units as you tech and once you get the Hive Matriarch use her to support the forces at the frontlines. Basically with this strategy you'd be teching faster than you normally would in a typical build, but you'd have enough units to defend and harass the enemy. IMO Queens will suck for offense. They have high hp, but their attack is rather low and most of her abilities are creep related. The only possible offensive use of her ability is to create Creep near the enemy base with an Ovie and cast Toxic Creep and build some defensive structures on it. Not a huge advantage, but it just might help out.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

That was a typo on my part.

I meant to tech to lair, not hive. Yeching straight to lair would be a bad idea. like you said.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

hmm.. what would happen to the zerg if the queen died and you have no other way to defend your base with defensive buildings. do we use more hydralisk to protect ourselves while a new queen spawns?

 

Re: Zerg Queen

Yeah, I don't think Zergs would be fitting for defensive playing with the Queen. She is meant to repair buildings that Protoss try to destroy but fail, so they can't do it in 2 zealot rushes. So that she can create defenses on expansions without the need to go across the map. So that she herself can be a die hard and defend herself when targeted. That's what I think she is. Not a weapon, but a defensive-caster.

@ gtx: you should have built your defenses previously from her death. If she died, spawn her quickly and use regular units just as you would.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

I also think she is a defencive caster.

My understanding is, if she dies, any defensive buildings she made are still active. So even if your queen dies, you should still have some basic defense set up.

 

Re: Zerg Queen

If the queen has a decent movespeed, she can just run around letting the multiple buildings/units bog down the rushing units(where the micro comes in) This obviously doesn't do jack squat against air, so lair form is going to get at least decent upgrades to her HP